<div dir="ltr">I second Larry's concerns about Aquion's SOC/voltage curves and tripping LVD at only 40% DOD with standard PV equipment, tied in with not being able to handle high discharge C-rates and surge loads. I did some math on running a typical off-grid home with a well pump on Aquions, and it wasn't pretty, but I may not have done the math right. Very interested to hear personal experience on off-grid homes with these batteries. <div><br></div><div> I was starting to envision applications for remote MET tower, repeater tower etc applications with low discharge C-rates and high charging C-rates, and then saw Aquions lowest operation temperature of -5C, 23 F. That's considered a "heat wave" during certain times of year in many areas, including here in sunny Colorado. In these applications the batteries are NOT in a heated room, instead an outdoor enclosure at the base of a tower.</div><div><br><div>AGMs are serving us here just fine on these sorts of esoteric installations, and they have no problem with -29C and lower when kept at high SOC. And, cheap, easy to replace, and giving us many years of life. The ROI math on the Aquions compared to AGM is not adding up for me on these applications.</div><div><br><div>My only experience with Aquion was their class at the NABCEP conference last year. </div><div><br></div></div></div><div>Any ground truth experience and stories on Aquions and other similar technologies appreciated here also.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards;</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan Fink</span><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ PV Installation Professional</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ Small Wind Installer</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive Director, Buckville Energy</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers™<br><a href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div><br> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com" target="_blank">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I too am interested in anyone that has installed these. I had some concerns back on Nov 10, 2014. Here is a copy/past from that conversation:<div><br></div><div>Something does not add up to me. The cell has a voltage discharge curve way outside that of RE equipment, 1.75 Vpc down to 0.5Vpc. I can't see how this technology could be scaled to RE applications without wasting much of the capacity. From what I see, only about 40% could be used before LVD.</div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></div><div>And this:</div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The Aquion battery claims their 2.4kWh, 48 volt stack operates from 59 to 30 volts. Many inverters have a LBCO of 1.75 Vpc (42 volts). Depending on voltage sag, that means about half of the capacity of the Aquion battery can't be used. Even if the outback can operate down to 1.5 Vpc, you are still not able to use the full capacity of the battery unless your load is less than 800 Watts. </span><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I have reviewed their technical presentation and it looks to me like the capacity simply can't be used in the off grid environment. If you can't use it, why do they rate it at 2.4kWh? BTW, the Voltage vs.Energy chart on the spec sheet does not match the first chart I posted.</span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><img height="415" width="449" src="cid:part1.08050305.02000901@starlightsolar.com"><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><br></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 29, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Chris Schaefer <<a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To All,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> Great insight on the lithium movement. I do am looking for anyone dealing with the new Aquion batteries. I’ve got a couple of potential clients that have inquired about them. Saw them at a NABCEP training session last spring and while the idea is moving I wasn’t impressed. Perhaps it’s time to start a new thread, “Aquion batteries”.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Christopher<u></u><u></u></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com" target="_blank">don@energysolarnow.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 29 January, 2016 00:49<br><b>To:</b> Dan Fink<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Thanks for sharing your experience with these batteries, Dan.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I have similar SOC issues with an off-grid customer who has the Aquion Hybrid Ion batteries.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">It has difficulty reaching full charge from solar, requiring the genny to kick on each morning even in the summer.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">This is even worse in cold winter weather.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Your explanation of the change in Peukert's exponent above 80% SOC with NiFe batteries sounds like what is happening here as well. <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Do you have any experience with Aquion batteries that you can share?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Thanks<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Don Barch <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Energy Solar<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com" target="_blank">don@energysolarnow.com</a></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>