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Steve,<br>
<br>
So the message I am getting is even though we are always
installing a BTS, seasonal adjustments are still necessary...to both
V settings <i>and absorption times? </i>Definitely, a major part
of my job in off-grid is to assess as best as possible, the
customer's system use habits to be able to make the kinds of
adjustment to which you speak. I'm always dinking around with these
settings because customers 'off-grid habits change and I don't fully
trust the BTS to accurately do its job in part because there is no
perfect place to secure it...the "best" place (the battery
terminal?) leaves little space for the sensor, plus its too far from
the actual chemical reaction we are trying to sense for accurate CC
adjustments.<br>
<br>
Please shed some light on how to deal with new batteries.
My experience is when we install a new set, they were not
necessarily of the same batch or age, sometimes I wonder how long
they have been in the "transit" chain. I've gotten into the habit
of discharging the pack ~50% and adjusting up the absorb voltage and
time several times to cook them a little harder (watching temps)
than settings 2-3 months down the road.<br>
<br>
Also, I'm curious when you say:"<span style="color:#1F497D">IEC
testing requires the batteries to come to full charge within the
first 8-10 cycles" <font color="#000000">what is their
definition of "full charge"?...I can think of a few.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your continued education on FLA batts.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<img alt="" src="cid:part1.08050007.06020609@psln.com"
height="103" width="306"><br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/19/2016 5:52 AM, Steve Higgins
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Good Morning
Wrenches… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’d like to
take the recent Trojan thread to throw this out there!
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">With the IEC
certification, many battery manufactures are being forced to
recommend higher settings to charge their batteries. The
problem with off grid systems, or even some grid back up
systems is the settings can/will vary from end user to end
user and can be very difficult to determine. Try to avoid
setting up a system and assuming that those settings will be
good year round as settings in most systems need to adjusted
at least twice, sometimes up to three times a year. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For example, we
are almost finished with IEC testing, the way they do this
testing in short is they take a battery, charge it to full
using mfg suggested settings, discharge it to 100% and they
cycle the battery until it comes to full capacity. Don’t
quote me, but IEC testing requires the batteries to come to
full charge within the first 8-10 cycles. To do so, you
need to be very aggressive on the charging settings.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Now, most
customers don’t cycle to 100% depth of discharge so end
users don’t need to be so aggressive on charger settings,
but we will be publishing revised charging parameters and
instructions in the coming quarter. Bottom line,
Bulk/Absorb Voltages @ 25 Deg C you will be advised to
charge the Rolls Batteries at 2.45 to 2.5vpc. This number
will vary based on how much the customer is using the
system. A weekender cabin with a decent sized array
(<10% of C20 Charge Current) will need closer to 2.4 to
2.45vpc, while a full timer (daily heavy cycles) will need
a setting closer to the 2.5vpc rating. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Remember,
regardless of where you are in the world, unless the
batteries are installed in a temperature controlled room
where it fluctuates less than ½ degree C, you should
ALWAYS, ALWAYS use battery temperature compensation.
Failure to do so, will always result in premature failure
of the batteries.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Settings are
generally a suggestion, the problem is they (customers)
should be looking at the SG’s at least on a quarterly basis
and adjusting settings when necessary. Lower trending SG
equal higher settings, higher SG equal lower settings. I
find that too many people set up settings and forget them,
until they have a problem. Normally I find with most
customers they should have a bit lower settings from April
to Sept, while settings should be higher from Oct thru
March. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Remember, the
battery companies you are dealing with generally don’t have
a lot of experience in solar… they are used to industrial
applications where you see 8-12 hours of charging every
single day. We all know that in most Off grid systems you
are lucky to get 3-5 hours, at best of decent charging a
day.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><font style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt" face="Tahoma"><strong>Steve
Higgins<br>
<font style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Technical Services Manager</font><br>
</strong></font><font face="Tahoma"><strong></strong></font><font
face="Tahoma">P: +1.902.597.4020<br>
</font><font face="Tahoma">M: +1.206.790.5840<br>
</font><font face="Tahoma">F: +1.902.597.8447<br>
</font><font color="#ff0000" face="Tahoma"><strong
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; TEXT-DECORATION: "><font
color="#d30000">Surrette Battery Company</font><br>
</strong></font><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" face="Tahoma">Exclusive
manufacturer of<br>
<img src="cid:part2.06090602.05040303@psln.com" border="0"
hspace="0"></font></p>
<font size="2" face="Tahoma">
</font><br>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Theo Van<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 18, 2016 8:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16 charge
settings<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">No
"settings recommend by Trojn"were shown. <br>
On Jan 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, William Miller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Colleagues:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I
have an off-grid customer for whom I replaced a set of 8
Trojan L-16s as well as upgrading her inverter and
charge controller. Right after the job, we found
several batteries with low specific gravity. We spoke
with the local distributor and received two replacement
batteries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">The
system continues to perform poorly. The customer EQs
every 30 days to 60 plus volts for 3 hours. They try to
get a full bulk and absorption charge in every day but
this time of year may not. The specific gravity readings
continue to diverge and generally go lower.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">We
contacted the distributor who told us they have had
problems with Trojan batteries since the company was
sold about two years ago. We were told they had a brand
X battery that tested better than the Trojans. We
agreed to try the Brand X but then were told that we had
not charged the Trojans adequately. Below are the
settings recommended directly by Trojan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">These
settings are significantly higher than any I have used
before. Also, I don’t recall it being possible to set
different bulk and absorption voltages with any of the
equipment I use. I use Trace, Outback, Schneider
default settings of 57.6 bulk, 54.4 float and reprogram
to 60.5 for equalization.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I
am curious about what charge settings you find
successful for flooded lead-acid batteries and what any
of you might think about the recommended settings as
seen below. Do you feel it is practical to achieve these
settings in an off-grid scenario? Would these high
settings cause excessive water consumption?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks
in advance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">William
Miller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><image001.jpg><br>
Lic 773985<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.millersolar.com/">millersolar.com</a><br>
805-438-5600</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">I looked at the spreadsheet and
the SG. readings across each battery are uniform which
tells be that it is highly unlikely that anything is
wrong with the batteries except for being under-charged.
Take a look at our User’s Guide on the Trojan website on
page 19 ( Recommended Charge Profile) or FLA batteries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">The Bulk stage should be @ 59.3V,
Absorb @ 58.8V, Float @ 54V and Equalization @ 64.8V.
When the User notices drops in the SG such as in this
document, an EQ charge should be performed in order to
get the batteries back up to full charge (full charge SG
being in the range of 1.270 to 1.280. When performing
the EQ, the user should take SG reading for a “pilot”
battery every 30 minutes until the voltages reach that
range. Termination should happen when SG reaches full
charge range or if battery temperature reaches 112
degrees F, which-ever comes first. SG readings can be
taken during EQ, but you have to make sure that you bump
the tiny gas bubbles off the Hydrometer float to prevent
erroneous readings.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Seeing the SG readings decreasing
after each month is an indication that maybe the Absorb
Time needs to be increased, maybe from 3 hours up to 4
or 5 hours.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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