<div dir="ltr">Hi Bill,<div>So Funny</div><div>I had assumed Carl had placed a disconnect in the attic so i stated the obvious art 110 reference.</div><div>Ive taken this type of installation to the extreme in this past in a new construction situation.</div><div>I surrounded emt in 3" of concrete from roof entry to basement.</div><div>My Opinion, get ready, is that the source circuit disconnect be required to be adjacent to the service entrance disconnect.</div><div>DC source circuit conductors should remain outside the dwelling until they can meet basically the same requirements as the AC service.</div><div>Might have a few disagreements there but just gotta keep The Man happy</div><div>Pat</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 11:38 AM, frenergy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com" target="_blank">frenergy@psln.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Carl, Pat,<br>
<br>
I guess I'm somewhere in between. We have <i>alway</i>s
installed a touchsafe/fused disco on the roof adjacent to the
array, no matter how many strings and dive into the attic (if
there is one) from there. I don't think I've ever put a disco in
the attic, the roof seems more accessible, visible. Why always
install a disco on the roof?...just the way I am and have been
doing it long before the 2014NEC rapid shutdown (still working
with 2011 here). I like the idea of being able to stop power from
entering the house envelope. Most times this (getting into the
attic) is most sensible here due to snow, as in sliding/creeping
snow.<br>
<br>
Somewhat related: I recently got a call from a new
PV-on-the-roof installation, you know that dreaded one: " There's
a leak coming from the can light over my sink which is just below
the PVs you installed on my roof last month" I went out there
that day, climbed into the attic and after looking at all the
"evidence" came up with this: Most can lights have the insulation
removed from that immediate area so the "can" is exposed to
unconditioned attic temps which around here have been in the
teens, any moisture from cooking in the kitchen would rise, enter
the can and freeze...I came down from the attic armed with my
explanation and alas, much pasta had been cooked and then strained
in the sink the prior night. By the time I had arrived the
dripping had stopped because their turning on the light that
morning was enough to melt the frost in the can and produce a few
minutes of dripping....enough dripping to call me (I must have
been on their speed dial!).<br>
<br>
Happy New Year all,<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
Feather River Solar Electric<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 1/5/2016 10:47 AM, Patrick Shortell wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Carl,
<div>I've moved away from this type of installation since alot
of the inspectors in this area just don't like it.</div>
<div>I avoid getting into "code confrontations" with them and
prefer to impress them rather than depress them.</div>
<div>Have you looked at article 110 regarding working
clearances?</div>
<div>Also I've considered a cut in the insulation of a
ungrounded source circuit conductor in grounded metal conduit
inside a dwelling.</div>
<div>Maybe i'm looking to deeply into it but I'd rather keep
source circuit conductors on the exterior of a dwelling.</div>
<div>It's hard to back track with the customer when he's been
sold on the conduit being hidden and then having to eventually
concede to the AHJ.</div>
<div>Sometimes having your inspector review your installation
plan before you install builds a good solid relationship with
him and avoids costly reworking.</div>
<div>I'd rather be happy than right.</div>
<div>Just Saying</div>
<div>Pat</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Carl
Adams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swingjunkie@gmail.com" target="_blank">swingjunkie@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-bottom:5px">
<div style="overflow:hidden">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Fellow Wrenches,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We recently failed an inspection on a new
PV installation</div>
<div>We are operating under the 2008 code</div>
<div>I have attached a small sketch of our
conduit routing to clarify things.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Inspectors note post inspection
...provide a photovoltaic disconnecting
means per 690.14 (C)(1) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>During his inspection the inspector was
unhappy that we had entered the attic space
with the DC source circuits, saying we
should have run the conduit across the roof
and kept it outside. Since we entered the
building we would need to add a DC
disconnect in the attic to meet code. My
thought is that we fall under the exception
listed (690.31(E)) since all source circuit
internal to the dwelling are in metallic
raceways. I'd like to hear other wrenches
chime in on this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our reason for routing things as we did
was to keep the installation aesthetics
first class and minimize unsightly conduit
runs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Code section follows</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>690.14 Additional Provisions.
Photovoltaic disconnecting</div>
<div>means shall comply with 690.14(A) through
(D).690.14 </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(C) Requirements for Disconnecting Means.
Means</div>
<div>shall be provided to disconnect all
conductors in a building</div>
<div>or other structure from the photovoltaic
system conductors.</div>
<div>(1) Location. The photovoltaic
disconnecting means shall</div>
<div>be installed at a readily accessible
location either on the</div>
<div>outside of a building or structure or
inside nearest the point</div>
<div>of entrance of the system conductors.</div>
<div>Exception: Installations that comply with
690.31(E) shall</div>
<div>be permitted to have the disconnecting
means located remote</div>
<div>from the point of entry of the system
conductors.</div>
<div>The photovoltaic system disconnecting
means shall not</div>
<div>be installed in bathrooms.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> 690.31 (E) reads as follows</div>
<div>
<div>(E) Direct-Current Photovoltaic Source
and Output</div>
<div>Circuits Inside a Building. Where
direct-current photovoltaic</div>
<div>source or output circuits of a
utility-interactive inverter</div>
<div>from a building-integrated or other
photovoltaic system are</div>
<div>run inside a building or structure,
they shall be contained in</div>
<div>metal raceways, or metal enclosures,
from the point of penetration</div>
<div>of the surface of the building or
structure to the</div>
<div>first readily accessible disconnecting
means. The disconnecting</div>
<div>means shall comply with 690.14(A)
through (D).</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>With Regards
<div>Carl Adams, President</div>
<div>SunRock Solar, LLC</div>
<a href="tel:513.290.9072" value="+15132909072" target="_blank">513.290.9072</a> (cell)</div>
<div><a href="tel:513.766.6025" value="+15137666025" target="_blank">513.766.6025</a> (office)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Patrick A. Shortell
<div><i>Licensed Master Electrician</i></div>
<div><i>Certified Solar Installer</i></div>
<div>71 Oregon Street</div>
<div>Long Beach N.Y. 11561</div>
<div>cell: <a href="tel:516-477-0221" value="+15164770221" target="_blank">516-477-0221</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Patrick A. Shortell<div><i>Licensed Master Electrician</i></div><div><i>Certified Solar Installer</i></div><div>71 Oregon Street</div><div>Long Beach N.Y. 11561</div><div>cell: 516-477-0221</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>