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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Allan, No, not suggesting to get rid of E-panels or wiring
centers. They aren't optimum though,<br>
electrically speaking. My suggestion was more of a technical one
intended to illustrate a <br>
way of wiring to reduce stress on (most) MPPT charge controllers.
I should not have said<br>
it was a a good practice "these days"... That was kind of dumb
for me to say.<br>
<br>
With the battery electrically a few feet away from the battery
buses, that tie the inverter<br>
and charge controllers together (plus other components), the CCs
and other energy sources<br>
can be momentarily short-circuited by the inverter (various
reasons)...<br>
<br>
If that bus was right at the battery terminals, then it's not
nearly as much stress on<br>
things. This is because the battery keeps a low impedance voltage
point between<br>
the two different systems.... This assumes that the batteries
are in decent health.<br>
<br>
You probably won't notice any issues wiring just the way you have
been doing things<br>
all these years so I would just keep doing what you are doing.
With proper over current <br>
protection (OCP), stress and reliability won't be an problem.<br>
<br>
But, it doesn't hurt to keep this concept in the back of your
mind when thinking about<br>
how things work.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/31/2015 6:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:563566FD.2070405@sindelarsolar.com"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
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boB,<br>
I appreciate your contribution to this discussion, but it brings
up a couple of issues for me.<br>
<br>
- You have suggested that "A good wiring practice these days is
to...wire the controller's battery terminals close or right at the
battery terminals." This goes against all modern good practices of
which I'm aware. We have long accepted as standard a single pair
of battery cables, with all DC input and distribution handled
within the power center (I've heard that some people refer to
these things as 'E-Panels'). It's the only way to effectively run
all current through a shunt on the negative, and through proper
overcurrent protection/disconnects on the positive.<br>
<br>
I must not have understood what you meant, as it sounds like
you're suggesting abandoning the entire E-Panel approach. What am
I missing here?<br>
Thanks, Allan<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive Energy, Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/29/2015 7:10 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a></a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5632C370.5060309@midnitesolar.com"
type="cite">On 10/29/2015 5:02 PM, Jay wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">boB, <br>
Is the OCP still being used and does it work in both
directions? <br>
JAY, Peltz power <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Jay. Yes, the OCP you refer to is still there. This
particular OCP though is a hardware <br>
fast OCP intended to protect the controller against large load
surges on the battery <br>
side of the controller... This usually happens when battery
cables are long and <br>
the inverter(s) are connected electrically close to the
controller, thereby drawing <br>
huge amounts of current from the Classic than from the battery
when the inverter <br>
is turned on, charging its input capacitors or something with
huge AC loads. <br>
<br>
A good wiring practice these days is to, if convenient at least,
wire the controller's <br>
battery terminals close or right at the battery terminals.
Then, when an inverter <br>
is either turned on and giving a momentary short circuit to the
battery lines, that <br>
current will come from the battery rather than the controller's
electronics. <br>
<br>
Larger cables won't necessarily fix the problem due to battery
cable inductance. <br>
<br>
The 150s and 200s rarely need the OCP circuitry. The 250 is the
one the OCP was <br>
really designed for but we put it into all of the controllers. <br>
<br>
There is also over current protection going the other way but is
not a microsecond <br>
timed protection. Plain old fast or slow ramping up surges like
we're talking about is easy to <br>
control, normally. <br>
<br>
Breaker tripping like this is extremely rare, IF it is from this
kind of current spikes due to <br>
generator startup. I would suggest to be safe and bring
another controller up just in case. <br>
<br>
Might be a bad controller but I just don't know without logging
or observing it happening <br>
with a scope and a current probe. I've seen some very strange
things happen. <br>
<br>
boB <br>
Sent from my iPhone
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 29, 2015, at 4:19 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">"boB@midnitesolar.com"</a></a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"><boB@midnitesolar.com></a>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Larry, because these MPPT CC's are bi-directional (for
efficiencies' sake), they can convert a large current <br>
at the battery side to a smaller current at the PV side if
not adjusted right. Normally this is just taken <br>
care of and reduced to a bare minimum by the controller
watching the voltages and currents carefully. <br>
It is technically possible though for things to not work
exactly correctly. I am not saying that this is <br>
for sure happening, but it is possible. The ramping up in
battery voltage from the chargers should <br>
be plenty slow enough for this not to be a problem but I am
wildly speculating that this could happen <br>
and cannot rule it out. There may of course be something
else completely different happening here <br>
though. <br>
<br>
If CBI breakers are being used, these are known to be
extremely fast at tripping when overloaded. <br>
<br>
Also, what, if any SPDs are connected to the system ? <br>
<br>
boB<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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