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      This is probably not the breaker at fault. Could be, but just
      doesn't seem like the only thing<br>
      I would suspect.<br>
      <br>
      Do you know if the generator might be turning on and charging the
      battery through the<br>
      inverters at this time in the morning ?  Since you were talking
      about the AGS it makes<br>
      me wonder...  That would be a good clue.<br>
      <br>
      There is a possibility that a simple (you know how "simple" goes
      sometimes !) adjustment that<br>
      can be done on the Classic if it turns out to be, say, a surge in
      battery voltage from the generator<br>
      starting up and causing a reverse current through the battery
      terminals...  The inherent circuit design of<br>
      higher efficiency converters can cause this.  Send me / us an
      email if you would like to try that. <br>
      This is done through a special communications mode using the MNGP
      display.<br>
      <br>
      Also, is this a new system or has it been running for a while and
      just now seeing this problem ?<br>
      <br>
      boB<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 10/29/2015 11:13 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a> wrote:<br>
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    <blockquote cite="mid:563261B4.3070908@midnitesolar.com" type="cite">
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        You don't want to drive for hours and hours to do something that
        might not fix the problem.<br>
        <br>
        Without knowing exactly what is happening, I would bring a spare
        Classic and also a new breaker<br>
        which I think I heard we were sending you....<br>
        <br>
        If the Classic is plugged into the internet, there is the
        possibility of monitoring it to see what is<br>
        going on just before the breaker trips.   I would just bring
        another one in this case if you have one...<br>
        Otherwise, call our support and see if there is something they
        can do to help in this regard.<br>
        <br>
        Strange things do happen in this industry !  Troubleshooting
        isn't so bad as long as you don't have<br>
        drive or take a helicopter a long ways just to find that the
        unit is turned off.<br>
        <br>
        boB<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        On 10/29/2015 9:55 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote:<br>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Daniel,</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Very

              strange problem.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">While

              I agree that you should try replacing the 100A breaker, I
              doubt that it’s the problem. Why would a breaker trip at
              low amperage in the morning, but not trip at noon when the
              amperage is higher? </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">At

              early morning turn-on, the voltage might be too high, but
              high voltage is not going to trip a breaker. Current trips
              a breaker, not voltage.</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">My

              guess is that something is going on inside the Classic
              controller. Larry’s “wild guess” might be on the mark. Do
              you have another Classic to swap out with?</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brian

              Teitelbaum</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">AEE

              Solar</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
              RE-wrenches [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Tittmann<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 28, 2015 3:05 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Classic 150 100 amp
              utput breaker tripping?????</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">An update on this issue:</p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On my initial visit to diagnose this
                problem I changed the AGS settings higher volt start and
                % state of charge start.  The report from the client is
                that this has fixed the AGS issue.  So now I am just
                dealing with the 100 amp breaker tripping.  </p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">The trip time from the client is when
                the sun hits the panels and once reset for the day it
                will not trip until the next morning. What could cause
                this? </p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">You are all right that the first step
                it changing out that breaker that will be the first on
                the list when I am back on site.  I hope that is the
                only issue because as usual this system is 2 Hrs from
                the shop with no cell or internet coverage.</p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your input.</p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Cheers-</p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Daniel</p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
            </p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Daniel Tittmann </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">CTO</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Greenwired</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.greenwired.com" target="_blank">www.greenwired.com</a></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:daniel@greenwired.com"
                        target="_blank">daniel@greenwired.com</a></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">707-923-2001 (office)</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">707-206-5088 (Cell)</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Mac
                Lewis <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>>

                wrote:</p>
              <p>Hi Daniel,</p>
              <p>Do you know what the error is on the AGS? What are the
                start set points that you have? Jay could be on to
                something if the battery voltage is collapsing before
                the generator can start, the cc current could be high.
                Do you know specifically what time of day the breaker is
                tripping?</p>
              <p>I'd check the Midnite logs and consider starting the
                generator sooner.  Is there large voltage swings (this
                could indicate bad battery or large load)? Make sure the
                wire is cleaned and torqued properly onto that breaker.
              </p>
              <p>How big is the battery bank and what is the tilt and
                azimuth of the panels?</p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 26, 2015 11:05 PM, "Jay"
                      <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Daniel</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Is this a new classic with
                          OCP? Or maybe they don't have it anymore?</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">What it sure sounds like
                          like is a big load on the batteries, it hits
                          faster than the AGS can start, and the caps in
                          the classic are dumping into the super low
                          battery voltage. If this is happening in the
                          AM, guessing with enough light to get the CC
                          alive </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">If there is a trimetric,
                          you can measure the lowest voltage which
                          should give you some good info. Super low
                          volts might mean a bad battery or too big a
                          load or both. </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">But I don't believe it's
                          the other way around that the classic is
                          causing any issues with the AGS/inverter</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">You could always try
                          another CC and see what happens</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Jay</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Peltz power</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                          On Oct 26, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Daniel Tittmann
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:daniel@greenwired.com"
                            target="_blank">daniel@greenwired.com</a>>

                          wrote:</p>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Hive mind-</p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">hoping you all can
                                help me solve this mystery issue.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">System:</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Magnum double panel
                                with Parallel stacked 2x4448 pae
                                inverters.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Classic 150 charge
                                controller wired with an NMEPV 50 (din
                                rail) and NMEPV100 </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">18 - 245 watt solar
                                modules (6x3). (not over powered)</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Issue:</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">every morning the 100
                                amp din rail breaker is tripping.  from
                                what I can gather simultaneously the
                                magnum RTR shows the AGS go into error. 
                                Re set the breaker and the solar works
                                fine for the rest of the day.  </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Not 100% sure the AGS
                                has worked (under normal operation) at
                                all other than at commissioning and
                                recent testing. </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Of course on site i
                                cant get it to fail.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Tested the AGS by
                                setting start voltage to 48.2 vdc and
                                put the system under load....... voltage
                                drops and generator turned on with no
                                pv-> Batt breaker issue. </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">last visit, chasing
                                one theory, I re routed the battery +
                                from the mnpv100 directly to the battery
                                 + terminal as opposed to the battery +
                                bus bar in the inverter panel still
                                didn't solve the problem.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">I cant figure out if
                                it the classic causing the issue or if
                                it is the inverters and the AGS.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Any input would be
                                appreciated.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Daniel</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
                              </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Daniel
                                      Tittmann </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">CTO</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Greenwired</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.greenwired.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.greenwired.com">www.greenwired.com</a></a></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:daniel@greenwired.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:daniel@greenwired.com">daniel@greenwired.com</a></a></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="tel:707-923-2001"
                                          target="_blank">707-923-2001</a>
                                        (office)</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="tel:707-206-5088"
                                          target="_blank">707-206-5088</a>
                                        (Cell)</p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                            List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
                          </p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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