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Dan,<br>
That's right about the unprotected DC + main. Trace used the
inverter GJ, so turning off DC loads required turning off the DC to
the inverter - which meant reprogramming it afterward. And it used a
#10 tap pigtail. Stoopid.<br>
<br>
If I have several DC loads I have sometimes fed the DC + buss
through a DC Main breaker as you write (I think), then the output is
bussed to the rest of the load breakers. <br>
<br>
I don't understand the self-destruct with PV. Modern MPPT
controllers won't exceed safe voltages. I don't do wind as a rule,
so what is at risk of self-destruction?<br>
<br>
On the Class T question, I'm with you. If we accept that a GJ-type
50,000 AIC breaker (per Midnite) is used, and a 10,000A AIC panel
mount or DIN rail CBI breaker will handle battery fault current at
the disconnect, then what exactly would adding a class T
catastrophic fuse accomplish? Seems to me it protects only the
cables and the buss bars in the disconnect enclosure (e.g. E-Panel
or equivalent) ahead of any breakers. By Code it oughtta be in
conduit (sch. 80 in New Mexico) anyway. And the inside of the
disconnect enclosure is for Qualified Personnel only, so we oughtta
know what we're doing in there. <br>
<br>
In all my years I have once seen a class T fuse do its job, when an
an early SW4024 failed internally. But that was in 1995 and the
Boltswitch pull-out was the sole overcurrent protection. It worked
perfectly (can anyone visualize flames in the inverter when I did a
quick test override?).<br>
<br>
I guess I'm missing the basic point of why we'd add a class T fuse
on the batteries anyway. I have put class T fuses on each parallel
string of a large battery bank before bussing them together. To me
that makes sense, either in the event of major cell failure or at
end-of-life of the batteries, when one of two or three strings might
be handling all of a big load profile. But in general, isn't the
fuse just redundant to the breakers while adding complexity and more
failure points? <br>
<br>
Unlike you, so far I haven't lost any sleep over this. Max, you say
ALWAYS good practice, but I don't get it. What am I missing?<br>
Thanks, Allan<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/23/2015 8:30 AM, Dan Fink wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAF+3Lne_=+ze-bXrVb-UEvonVvx-4xdxA5DvJyEXi=Hnr2tmtw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Esteemed Wrenches;
<div>This creeps me out too and sometimes causes lack of sleep.</div>
<div>The Midnite Solar power panel install manual shows no OCPD
on in DC + main from battery bank to power panel. Easy to wire
the main DC breaker to control those conductors, but then you
have a "self destruct" switch if system shutdown and restart
is not done in the proper order, IE PV and wind turbine shut
down first before battery bank.</div>
<div>For a class T fuse on the battery bank, it's a big $ ordeal
because it has to be outside the battery box in an enclosure
per NEC. </div>
<div>So, recently I've just been making sure the conduit from DC
battery mains is sound up to the power panel. The only issue I
can see is mice chewing 2/0 cable inside the battery box --
which means the box wasn't designed right to exclude rodents,
or the owner has a lazy cat.</div>
<div>I'd feel much better if there was an OCPD NEC legal to
attach right to the main battery DC + and wire from there to
power panel, but I don't think that exists.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan
Fink</span>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Adjunct
Professor, Ecotech Institute</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC
Certified Instructor™ for: </div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ PV
Installation Professional</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ Small
Wind Installer</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive
Director, Buckville Energy</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP /
IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education
Providers™<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:26 PM,
Mbalchowsky <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:max@seesolar.com" target="_blank">max@seesolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>It's ALWAYS good practice to install a current
limiting fuse at the battery bank, if fact it's very
poor practice not to. We're working with a lot of
larger lithium ion phosphate manganese systems and I
would not install them without it. As far as working
on someone else's install, make your contract very
clear as to what the customer can expect as far as
your liability when working on an existing system. The
more detail, the better.....<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAF+3Lne_=+ze-bXrVb-UEvonVvx-4xdxA5DvJyEXi=Hnr2tmtw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>On Oct 22, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Jerry Shafer <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p dir="ltr">I agree, fuse it</p>
<p dir="ltr">Jerry</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 22, 2015 3:26
PM, "Tom Ruscitti" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:truscitti@taitem.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:truscitti@taitem.com">truscitti@taitem.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On battery
based systems I always install a Class T
fuse as close to the battery bank as
possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in
requiring a current limiting fuse only where
the available short-circuit current from the
battery bank exceeds the interrupting
ratings of the inverter breaker. Inverter
breakers vary in their interrupting ratings
and battery banks are big current sources
when things go wrong, so it's just a
sensible best practice. My question is about
service work on systems we didn't install.
We're quoting the second job this year for
battery replacement where there is no
current limiting fuse installed. It's always
a tough question to judge what extra work
might be required when you touch another
contractor's system, but does anyone have an
opinion about recommending or requiring the
installation of a fuse at the battery box as
part of the battery replacement?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
- Tom<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Tom Ruscitti<br>
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