<div dir="ltr">Dave, it's 6 T-105s and over the winter the only load is the CC and inverter. Temperature is unknown, though likely gets to -20F. There is insulation, not that it does any good if they are not charging to capture some heat.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan Fink</span><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ PV Installation Professional</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ Small Wind Installer</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive Director, Buckville Energy</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™<br><a href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div><br> </div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Dave <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com" target="_blank">dave@independentpowerllc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hey Dan,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Interesting voltage numbers. How many T-105's in this system and what is the load? What is the temperature of the battery bank?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dave<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Fink<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 23, 2015 10:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Another thumbs up on Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries. They take owner abuse with grace and dignity, are easy to move via non-truck methods and with shipping caps on the cells even helicopter operators don't whine too much. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Here's some data aq from one of my helo installs in northern BC that gets zero sun 3 months of the year. These T-105s have been in place since 2009 and are still going strong.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Dan Fink</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">IREC Certified Instructor™ for: <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">~ PV Installation Professional<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">~ Small Wind Installer<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Executive Director, Buckville Energy<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™<br><a href="tel:970.672.4342" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">970.672.4342</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Dave <<a href="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com" target="_blank">dave@independentpowerllc.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Jay,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I second your thumbs up for golf cart batteries for their value to budget wise off-gridders. I sell a lot of Trojan T-105's (selling more of the RE models the last few years) to do-it-yourselfers with small systems. I have not seen problems with two, and up to three strings of these in 24v systems. Many of my customers can't afford the more expensive batteries and they have been getting 8 to 12 years of service from T-105's. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">David Palumbo </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Independent Power LLC</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">462 Solar Way Drive</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hyde Park, VT 05655</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jay<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Allan,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">A few questions.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">how little energy? amp hrs night/avg.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">and<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">is mx something this person does or would like to do without?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">But given what you’ve said, I wouldn’t go with wet cell industrial as you’ll never get the C rate you need. If the 8 x L-16’s have done her well ( and probably the battery box is set up for that form factor) and with your budget I’d go with another set of L-16’s flooded or sealed if the budget/want allows. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">And if the need is really quite small, I”d consider golf cart. Yea yea,I hear all the laughs, but where I live, golf carts seem to have the life they always have, but L-16’s ( all brands) seem to have a shorter and shorter life for reasons I don’t understand. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">jay<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">peltz power<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">I have a related question, please. One of my longtime off grid clients is a single woman who maintains a nonprofit sanctuary for about 30 rescue dogs, both adoptable and not adoptable (curious? </span><a href="http://www.bridgingtheworlds.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">www.bridgingtheworlds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">). With that many animals, Beverly seldom leaves her remote land and her support and sustenance comes primarily from donations. Her existing system is a 18-year-old SW4024/Solar Boost SB50, with 800W of old array and eight L16s. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br><br><span style="background:white">The L16s were takeouts from another job that I figured had some life left (used for two years in another contractor's Sunny Island GTBB system without telling the customer that he needed to add water regularly). I gave them to her at no cost and they lasted three years but are now dying fast.</span><br><br><span style="background:white">At my suggestion she has been running a GoFundMe campaign that has raised $2900. I have already told her that I'll do the swapout at no charge. I told her that the choice of her next set of batteries would depend on the money she raised: we have another 24V set of 820A/hr Rolls that I think has some life left, or we can afford 8 L16s, or with the most generous donation total I'll order a set of HUPs and they'll last her the rest of her life (or maybe not - she's healthy, beautiful and independent at 71 years). </span><br><br><span style="background:white">So, my question: At $3,000 and 24V, what would you sell her? This is bound to bring varied opinions, but I want to look beyond what I would select based on price and get other Wrenches' suggestions. I'll add that while the array is small and old, she lives well on very little energy, and has a TriMetric and a backup generator. </span><br><br><span style="background:white">Thank you for your opinions.</span><br><span style="background:white">Allan</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br><span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.<br><b><a href="tel:505%20780-2738" target="_blank">505 780-2738</a> cell</b><br><br></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">On 10/22/2015 11:50 AM, <a href="mailto:penobscotsolar@midmaine.com" target="_blank">penobscotsolar@midmaine.com</a> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><pre style="background:white">As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">been buying from him since our inception in 1988.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Daryl<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre style="background:white">The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">had issues BUT...... we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery, one of the best<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">suppliers in our 27+ years.<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre style="background:white">Hi Wrenches,<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries? Happy with them? Worth the<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">extra $$$?<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Thanks for the feedback,<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Kris<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">--<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Shine On!<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Kris Schmid<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Legacy Solar, LLC<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">864 Clam Falls Trail<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Frederic, WI 54837<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"><a href="http://www.legacysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.legacysolar.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"><a href="tel:715-653-4295" target="_blank">715-653-4295</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre 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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><pre style="background:white"><a href="mailto:Tump@swnl.net" target="_blank">Tump@swnl.net</a> <a href="http://www.swnl.net/" target="_blank">www.SWNL.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> Solarwinds Northernlights<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <a href="tel:207-832-7574" target="_blank">207-832-7574</a> Cl. <a href="tel:610-517-8401" target="_blank">610-517-8401</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> Blair "TUMP" May<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ********<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ********<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer 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style="background:white">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">Change listserver email address & settings:<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white"> <u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="background:white">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" 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Redwood Alliance</span><br><br><span style="background:white">List Address: </span></span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br><br><span style="background:white">Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br></span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br><br><span style="background:white">List-Archive: </span></span><a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br><br><span style="background:white">List rules & etiquette:</span><br></span><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br><br><span style="background:white">Check out or update participant bios:</span><br></span><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";background:white">www.members.re-wrenches.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>