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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jarmo, the accumulated experience of a big group of professionals is one of the great functions of this list. This discussion is yet another of a recurring thread that documents the fuzziness of current and past battery technology and management. There are a huge number of variables, but your suggestion of documenting the position of bad cells is a good start. Hopefully the new series of smart batteries will offer better management. Thanks to all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill Dorsett<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Manhattan, KS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 13, 2015 9:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan Batteries<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi:</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It occurred to me that with all the experience on the Wrenches community, we have a unique opportunity to get perspective on one aspect of battery bank natural aging and failure.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Which cells typically fail first,</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A. The cells on the end of the strings</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>B. The cells in the middle of the strings</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>C. Random cells in any position.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If there is a pattern to failures among a large group of systems, then that will support cell rotation. If not, then not.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>JARMO<br></span><span style='color:green'>_____________________________________________________________________________________</span> <br><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Jarmo Venalainen</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b><span style='color:green'> Schneider Electric </span> | Xantrex Brand</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Sales Application Engineer</b> <b><br>Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Tech Support:</b> 800-670-0707 | <b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>Email:</b> </span><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b>Site:</b></span><a href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> www.Xantrex.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td colspan=4 style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.xantrexrebate.com/" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.png@01D0D5AF.B2D85720"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=166 height=55 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image003.gif@01D0D5AF.B2D85720"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=36 height=55 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image004.gif@01D0D5AF.B2D85720"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://twitter.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=38 height=55 id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image005.gif@01D0D5AF.B2D85720"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://twitter.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=303 height=55 id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image006.gif@01D0D5AF.B2D85720"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00A000'><br>*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</span><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>From:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>To:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>, </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Date:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>08/13/2015 07:03 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Subject:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan Batteries</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Sent by:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br>Most failures have been in one string of 4 or 8 batteries. One failure was in two strings of 4. <br><br>At 10:26 PM 8/12/2015, you wrote: <br>What size are the banks are are they series/paralleled across the terminals? That can cause one or more cells to fail, generally starting on the negative terminal. The set that failed on me was series/parallel across the terminals, old school, and the cell closest to the main negative overheated and shorted out, killing that string. It’s why I went to buss bars.<br><br>Tom<br><b><br>From:</b> <a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">Drake</a> <b><br>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 12, 2015 12:03 PM<b><br>To:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> <b><br>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Trojan Batteries<br><br>Hello Wrenches,<br><br>I have had a number of customers with Trojan L-16s have problems lately. In some cases, I know that the batteries weren't very well cared for, but in no case were the batteries totally discharged and let get cold or sit for a long time. It doesn't seem that the batteries should have died after a couple of years. I could see diminished output and a reduced life. <br><br>One customer who supposedly knows someone with inside information claims that Trojan started cutting corners a few years ago to be more competitive on price. <br><br>Has anyone else seen more problems with Trojan Batteries, or heard that the company is cutting corners?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Drake <br><i><br>Athens Electric LLC<br>OH License 44810<br>CO License 3773<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV <br>740-448-7328</i><u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://athens-electric.com/">http://athens-electric.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a> <br><br>List rules & etiquette:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a> <br><br>List rules & etiquette:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br>______________________________________________________________________<br>This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.<br>______________________________________________________________________<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><tt>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</tt><br><br><tt>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></tt><br><br><tt>Change listserver email address & settings:</tt><br></span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span></tt></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><br><tt>List-Archive: </tt></span><a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</span></tt></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><br><tt>List rules & etiquette:</tt><br></span><a href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span></tt></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><br><tt>Check out or update participant bios:</tt><br></span><a href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.members.re-wrenches.org</span></tt></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>