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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Jarmo,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Unfortunately, simple is wrong in this case—and detrimental to the PV industry that needs all the roof real estate it can find.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br>Bill.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Bill Brooks, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Brooks Engineering<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Using the North Facing Roof<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hi:</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Granted that the description is very simple, but that is the intent. </span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The essence of it is that the "loss" for small variations in angle of incidence is approximately bounded by, (less than), the sin of the angle between the orientations of two panels/arrays in question.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>10 degrees ---> minus 17%</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>20 degrees ---> minus 33%</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>30 degrees ---> minus 50%</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>If you go through the detailed math and take into account atmospheric effects, especially when the sun is near the horizons, temperature, location, weather, etc., the result will vary, but will not be worse than the sin of the angle.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'll draw out better picture with more detail for Vancouver. We're at a fairly high latitude, so overall array orientation is a more sensitive factor than farther south.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>JARMO</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br></span><span style='color:green'>_____________________________________________________________________________________</span> <br><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>Jarmo Venalainen</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b><span style='color:green'> Schneider Electric </span> | Xantrex Brand</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Sales Application Engineer</b> <b><br>Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Tech Support:</b> 800-670-0707 | <b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>Email:</b> </span><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Site:</b></span><a href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> www.Xantrex.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td colspan=4 style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A000'><br>*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</span><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>From:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Brian Mehalic <<a href="mailto:brian@solarenergy.org">brian@solarenergy.org</a>></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>To:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>, </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Date:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>07/28/2015 09:48 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Subject:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Re: [RE-wrenches] Using the North Facing Roof</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Sent by:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br>The analysis of 50% of south facing production is too simplistic; running some modeling shows that, depending on the latitude, the difference can be much smaller, approaching 25% less for the north facing. I think this layout could become more common especially on low slope commercial roofs, where the north facing module would occupy space that was already unused due to interrow shading. Of course the closer to the equator the less difference between production of the north and south arrays...and you better be careful when stringing them in series so as not to mix N and S facing..plus filling in all those gaps between rows could make servicing the array a bit problematic! <br><br>Cheers, <br><br><br>Brian Mehalic <br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 <br><br>PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor <br>Solar Energy International<u><span style='color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://www.solarenergy.org/" target="_blank">http://www.solarenergy.org</a> <br><br>On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:24 AM, <<a href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote: <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'>Jarmo,</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'> </span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'>The sun’s geometry is not nearly that simple. To understand the impact of north-facing arrays, you have to perform a simulation. PV:WATTS does this just fine and it is easy to show that a 18-degreed North-facing tilt produces 75% of a perfect 30-degree south-facing array. Far more than your assumption of 50%.</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'> </span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'>To compare 15-degrees South to 15-degrees North, the numbers are slightly better at 77%. We are going to see a lot of north-facing arrays once people understand that low tilt angles are very forgiving on North slopes. Steep slopes are a totally different story and you have to run the numbers….</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'> </span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'>Bill.</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'> </span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> RE-wrenches [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b></span><a href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</span></a><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Tuesday, July 28, 2015 8:04 AM<b><br>To:</b> RE-wrenches <</span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><b><br>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Using the North Facing Roof</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I did a slide on the effect of North facing modules. For even a fairly aggressive rotation North as shown, the effect is "only" a 50% reduction.</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>The questions of whether or not to do it, are,</span> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>- is the mounting structure simpler, lower cost</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>- security against wind</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>- can I put a larger array on the roof (typically yes, if you make back to back pyramid shaped structures)</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>- overall, what is the cost versus benefit</span> <br><img border=0 width=610 height=434 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.gif@01D0C929.19AFFB30"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br>JARMO</span><span style='color:green'><br>_____________________________________________________________________________________</span> <b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br><br>Jarmo Venalainen</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b><span style='color:green'> Schneider Electric </span> | Xantrex Brand</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Sales Application Engineer</b> <b><br>Phone:</b> </span><a href="tel:%2B604-422-2528" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>+604-422-2528</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Tech Support:</b> </span><a href="tel:800-670-0707" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>800-670-0707</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Mobile:</b> </span><a href="tel:%2B604-505-0291" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>+604-505-0291</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <b><br>Email:</b> </span><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Site:</b></span><a href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> www.Xantrex.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> | <b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td colspan=4 style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.xantrexrebate.com/" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image002.png@01D0C929.19AFFB30"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=166 height=55 id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image003.gif@01D0C929.19AFFB30"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=36 height=55 id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image004.gif@01D0C929.19AFFB30"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://twitter.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=38 height=55 id="_x0000_i1030" src="cid:image005.gif@01D0C929.19AFFB30"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://twitter.com/Xantrex" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=303 height=55 id="_x0000_i1031" src="cid:image006.gif@01D0C929.19AFFB30"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00A000'><br><br>*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td width="12%" valign=top style='width:12.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>From:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="87%" valign=top style='width:87.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"Peter Parrish" <</span><a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>To:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"'RE-wrenches'" <</span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>, </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Date:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>07/28/2015 12:22 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Subject:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>[RE-wrenches] Using the North Facing Roof</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F'>Sent by:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"RE-wrenches" <</span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>I recently read a short piece that caught me up short, and I quote:</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>“The fast dropping cost of solar, while a huge boon to the adoption of solar PV, has counter-intuitively altered design parameters. No longer is the north-facing roof considered unusable because limited application in less-than optimal orientations can still show a positive net benefit. Arrays are thus designed now with elements or sub-arrays in these locations, increasing overall kW installation while reducing the energy production per capacity installed. This might have been anticipated based on sheer economic analysis from a users perspective, but so long has solar been expensive that these less optimal orientations were never seriously considered.”</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br> </span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>I doubt that the individual who wrote this piece came to these conclusions him/herself. Does anyone know of a recent article that argued this perspective? Is this an emerging design practice? If so, I’d like to know more about it. <br> </span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>- Peter <br> </span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>President, SolarGnosis</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>1107 Fair Oaks Ave., Suite 351</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br>South Pasadena, CA 91030</span> <u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="tel:%28323%29%20839-6108" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>(323) 839-6108</span></a> <u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="mailto:petertor@pobox.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>petertor@pobox.com</span></a> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080'><br> </span> <o:p></o:p></p><p 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