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I am paying close attention to this thread, but for different
reasons. I have designed and will install next month an off grid
system for a high-elevation research hut. At 14,242' I believe this
will be the highest elevation
off grid system in the continental US (Alaska too?), at the
Summit Hut atop White Mountain, east of the Sierra crest in eastern
California (wmrc.edu/facilities/bar/summit.html). For me it's sort
of a post-retirement summer working adventure. A nearly identical
system will
serve an older observatory at 12,700' in the same area. The Summit
Hut will get a roof array where winds of 190 mph have been measured,
I'm told. The roof has about a 5º north-facing tilt. <br>
<br>
I'm old-school too, thinking in terms of a 25º tilt to south. But
other than powering an internet repeater all year, the system is
only used during the summer months, mid-June to mid-October, when
the snow has melted and it's accessible by a long jeep trail. So in
that respect it's similar to a flat- or north-facing array in a
grid-tied system, where only summer gain matters much and a southern
tilt matters less that I want to believe. Jason's chart is pretty
useful here, suggesting that I should pay more attention to handling
wind loads with a low angle than maximizing summer gain.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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<!--[endif]--><b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/28/2015 11:15 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net">billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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and Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You
are too old-school to think outside the box. It’s not about
direct sunlight—it’s all about kWh/m^2/day and those numbers
don’t lie. Your analysis is not correct and this is why
simple analyses will always give you a wrong answer. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">North-facing
arrays have been financially attractive for years, but many
have not done it due to taboos or bad analysis. Reverse-tilt
arrays often look horrible and should be avoided
particularly on the street-side of a house. Also, the
structural impacts of tilted arrays on residential rooftops
are not well-understood so wind-loading calculations are
complex at best.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have been using east and west facing roofs for your years so
what’s the big deal about north? I put together the one of
the first tables of orientation version performance way back
in 2001 for the California Energy Commission to combat the
misconceptions that PV arrays had to be mounted at
45-degrees facing South (the prevailing misconception at the
time). I didn’t print the North facing numbers because the
concept would have blown people’s minds at the time—they
weren’t ready for the truth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">30-degrees
facing south is optimal in most latitudes from 20-degrees to
50-degrees. (perfect in most locations)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">4:12
pitch (18-degrees) facing south is 97% of perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">4:12
pitch east or west is 88% of perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Flat
is 89% of perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">4:12
pitch facing north is 75% of perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
truth shall set you FREE.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bill.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 28, 2015 9:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Using the North Facing
Roof<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Yuma, AZ, north facing modules will
have direct sunlight for small part of the year. In the
picture, look at the yellow area above the East-West line.
Thats direct sunlight from the north. The green top line in
the picture shows summer solstice showing sunlight from
sunrise to about 0930 and from 1530 to sunset. The energy
harvested during those hours will be tiny compared to the
peak sun hours on the south side. The angle of incidence
will also reduce the total power generated during those
hours.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The thin brown middle line is the
equinox. By then, there is no direct sunlight on the north
side. I can not see any benefit in AZ even at todays low
prices. Now, if I were building in Quetzaltenango,
Guatemala, that would be a different story. But then again,
I would have to clean off the volcanic ash each morning. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Larry Crutcher<br>
Starlight Solar Power Systems<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
id="A1B69AD4-8740-4FD6-8D8C-11FF215EC3F2"
src="cid:part2.04040500.07020701@sindelarsolar.com"
height="379" width="381"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">chart came from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gaisma.com/en/">http://www.gaisma.com/en/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Peter
Parrish <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
recently read a short piece that caught me up
short, and I quote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">“The
fast dropping cost of solar, while a huge boon to
the adoption of solar PV, has counter-intuitively
altered design parameters. No longer is the
north-facing roof considered unusable because
limited application in less-than optimal
orientations can still show a positive net
benefit. Arrays are thus designed now with
elements or sub-arrays in these locations,
increasing overall kW installation while reducing
the energy production per capacity installed. This
might have been anticipated based on sheer
economic analysis from a users perspective, but so
long has solar been expensive that these less
optimal orientations were never seriously
considered.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
doubt that the individual who wrote this piece
came to these conclusions him/herself. Does anyone
know of a recent article that argued this
perspective? Is this an emerging design practice?
If so, I’d like to know more about it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Peter
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Peter
T. Parrish, Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">President,
SolarGnosis</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1107
Fair Oaks Ave., Suite 351</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">South
Pasadena, CA 91030</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">(323)
839-6108</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:petertor@pobox.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:petertor@pobox.com">petertor@pobox.com</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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