<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">When deciding on voltage drops and otherwise
working out the design of a solar system, one thing that needs careful
attention is to make sure that the array voltage does not drop below a
level at which the inverter cannot produce full power.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">This voltage will occur when the inverter
is working at full input current such as a hypothetical 3000 W inverter
which can handle a maximum of 10 Amps of input current to produce its full
rated 3000 Watts (10Amps @ 300 Vdc). </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">At any voltage less than 300 Vdc, the
power will be limited by the maximum 10 Amps. For example at 290
Vdc you get 2.9 kW, 280 Vdc you get 2.8kW, and so on.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Even if the inverter can <u>operate</u>
down to 100 Vdc, you don't want to be anywhere near there, especially not
during the midday hours as that will hurt peak power production, a lot.
In this case -0.3% loss for every volt below 300Vdc.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><img src=cid:_1_0B42BDBC0B42B9BC00558F0288257E8F>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Identifying this voltage for a particular
inverter may not however be straightforward due to wide variety of wording
used in specifying ratings. Wording such as,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1. operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2. full power operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">3. MPPT operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">4. minimum operating voltage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">5. minimum MPPT operating voltage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">6. rated operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">7. Rated MPPT operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">8. starting voltage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">9. nominal operating voltage range</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">10. maximum input current</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">11. minimum input voltage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">12. minimum DC voltage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">13. nominal DC input current</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">14. maximum operating DC input current</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">15. maximum continuous operating DC
input current</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">17.........</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">When looking for the voltage below which
you don't want go, look for the following:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1. The maximum operating input current</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2. The minimum MPPT operating voltage</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Then make sure the array can produce
at least that much voltage and current when its really hot when the resistance
of all the wires is more than at room temperature.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">JARMO<br>
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<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Glenn Burt <glenn.burt@glbcc.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">07/25/2015 12:46 PM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] DC conductor line
loss numbers</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri">You would want to confirm hot temp PV circuit
values with chosen Vdrop to ensure the irrelevant value doesn't drop you
out of the inverters' operational limit, however.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Glenn Burt<br>
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse grammar and typos.</font>
<br>
<hr><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b>From: </b></font><a href=mailto:cometenergysystems@gmail.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>Chris
Mason</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b><br>
Sent: </b>ý7/ý25/ý2015 15:20<b><br>
To: </b></font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>RE-wrenches</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [RE-wrenches] DC conductor line loss numbers</font><font size=3><br>
</font>
<br><font size=3>It should be noted that the NEC recommendations for feeder
circuits are to do with acceptable voltages at the load, i.e., you do not
want your 208V equipment running on 200V. PV circuits are not feeder circuits,
voltage drop is irrelevant. Power loss may be relevant, but only in terms
of economic value. If it is preferable to add more PV and lose 10% of the
power, as long as there are no issues of heat and potential fire, why shouldn't
you be able to make that decision? As PV gets cheaper, replacing cables
costing $10,000 to save $10 a year does not make sense. The NEC rules on
voltage drop were never designed for PV source circuits.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Jerry Shafer <</font><a href=mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue><u>jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:</font>
<br><font size=3>Wrenches<br>
I have 3 engineering firms and one in-house engineer that only use 1% because
in the NEC it is stated as a suggestion and not a requirement but they
take this as a must not exceed instead, </font>
<br><font size=3>I cant change CC as it will be remotely monitored via
the Outback connection, the Engineers refuse to make any changes to the
1% and still stamp the drawings. This is what I have found in my research
it came from Mike Holt<br>
</font>
<p><font size=3>Contrary to common belief, the NEC generally doesn't require
you to size conductors to accommodate voltage drop. It merely suggests
in the Fine Print Notes to 210.19(A), 215.2(A)(4), 230.31(C), and 310.15(A)(1)
that you adjust for voltage drop when sizing conductors. It's important
for you to remember that Fine Print Notes are recommendations, not requirements
[90.5(C)].</font>
<p><font size=3>The NEC recommends that the maximum combined voltage drop
for both the feeder and branch circuit shouldn't exceed 5%, and the maximum
on the feeder or branch circuit shouldn't exceed 3%. This recommendation
is a performance issue, not a safety issue.</font>
<p><font size=3>Jerry</font>
<p>
<br><font size=3>On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Starlight Solar Power
Systems <</font><a href=mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue><u>larry@starlightsolar.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:</font>
<br><font size=3>Jerry,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>A long distance wire run is practical now days using a
high voltage controller. Have a look at Schneider and Morningstar 600Vdc
controllers. Not sure what you mean "by nothing can be changed but
wire size” but you will have to rewire the strings into series and protect
the wire run.</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
Larry Crutcher</font><font size=3 color=#8f8f8f><br>
Starlight Solar Power Systems</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Jerry Shafer <</font><a href=mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue><u>jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Wrenches</font>
<br><font size=3>Some time back there was discussion on the conductor size
and efficiency rating requirement for long DC runs.</font>
<br><font size=3>What I am looking at is this, 400 feet of MCM 400 to keep
the line loss at or below 1% per NEC code for an off grid application,
cost vs return is not acceptable. 2/0 is less than 2.5% and the cost is
far less. Specs are 4 strings of 3, 250 watt modules feeding one Outback
FM 80 charge controller. There are lots of things I can do like SMA instread,
or 200 VDC charge controller but nothing can be changed except the wire
gauge. Does anyone recall a thread with this topic.<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3>thoughts ??</font>
<br><font size=3>Jerry</font>
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<br><font size=3>-- </font>
<br><font size=3>Chris Mason</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#8f8f8f>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#2f2f2f>Solar Design Engineer</font>
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