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Mac:<br>
The 0.8 PF is a design criteria by which the generator manufacturer
specs the capacity of the genset. The genset has to provide the
reactive power not just the real component, so most use the 0.8PF as
a reasonable spec. In your case with the Magnum charger presenting a
1.0PF, the genset output should match that value.<br>
<br>
Regards, Gary<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/14/15 8:45 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOABG48UBPys79BCOSQ3ommaiQ0R7JoEHYSAAH-68-KLwgc3YQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Wrenches,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for these productive responses. I will attempt to
get an instrument that can examine the current waveform. I
want to understand power factor possibility a bit more. I
neglected to mention that during the oscilloscope tests, we
turned off the AC output of the inverter so the only loading
of the generator would have been the charger on the Magnum.
The Magnum has power factor corrected charger, so I am
assuming that when I measure the power factor, it should be
near unity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I was talking to an electrical engineering friend about it
and he said that most generators have a pf of about 0.8. This
confuses me because I thought current (and hence power factor)
is determined by the load. How does the power source
influence power factor (assuming we aren't near its current
production limit)? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks in advance</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:43 AM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com"
target="_blank">Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I'm assuming the
oscilloscope waveforms
are voltages. If so, they don't look bad.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I would get a current for
the oscilloscope
and and measure the L1, L2 and Neutral currents. That
should reveal
what is going on.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">JARMO <br>
</font><font color="#008000" size="3">_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font
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<br>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">From:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Mac Lewis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com"
target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>></font>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">To:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">RE-wrenches <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>,
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">07/14/2015 06:01
AM</font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [RE-wrenches]
Generac QT series</font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Sent
by:</font>
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<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"RE-wrenches"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<div>
<div class="h5">
<br>
<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Hello wrenches,</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Last December I posted about a Magnum
4448 and a Generac
22 kW generator that aren't working well together.
The symptom was
that the Magnum transformer would overheat very
quickly, even at very low
charge rates (<2A DC). We have verified 120/240
VAC operation
of the generator.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">We were able to get up to the site with
an oscilloscope
and see if we could find anything out. I've attached
some photos
of the oscilloscope output. I don't have anything to
compare it to,
so I'd like to see if anyone has some insight into why
this may be occurring.</font>
<br>
<font size="3">The 4 photos are as follows (all photos
L1-L2):</font>
<br>
<font size="3">1. Generator Waveform No Load: Unloaded
Generator
Voltage Waveform</font>
<br>
<font size="3">2. Charger 1st Connected: AC Input
Voltage waveform
immediately after charger connects</font>
<br>
<font size="3">3. Steady State Operation Editted: AC
Input Voltage
waveform after about 10 seconds, this waveform
continues until transformer
overheats (in about 2 minutes) Note the disturbances.</font>
<br>
<font size="3">4. Zoomed In Ripple: Closer view of the
disturbances
noted in #3.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">We have tried replacing the Magnum with
an identical unit,
and we had the same issue. We also tried a Honda 6500
with atrocious
voltage and frequency regulation and it worked fine
with the Magnum.
Since I did not sell him the generator, the easy out
is to replace the
generator. However, there is some custom exhaust duct
work and it
will be much more expensive to replace the generator
than to try a new
inverter. </font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">I think that over all it is preferable
for the client
to replace the inverter/charger with a different
brand. I have no
problem doing that except that I'd like to be
relatively sure that this
is anomalous behavior between the Magnum and the
Generac and not a generator
issue. What are the chances that I'd have the same
issue with a different
inverter? What might cause this? All voltage and
frequency
measurements have been perfect with the Generac.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Your comments or thoughts are
appreciated.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Thanks</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 11:15 AM, RE
Ellison <</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:reellison@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
color="blue" size="3"><u>reellison@gmail.com</u></font></a><font
size="3">>
wrote:</font>
<br>
<font size="3">If memory serves me correctly and this is
the off grid
Generac they are available as a 120 volt and it takes
a new breaker and
rewiring to get 120 / 240 out of them</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">I run into this in the past they actually
had it wired
for 240 into a balancing transformer to feed 120 into
the inverter</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">We could've just left it at 120 volt </font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Later,</font>
<br>
<font size="3">Bob ellison <br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<font size="3">Bob Ellison</font>
<br>
<font size="3"><br>
On Dec 16, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Baxter, Gary" <</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gbaxter@sensata.com" target="_blank"><font
color="blue" size="3"><u>gbaxter@sensata.com</u></font></a><font
size="3">>
wrote:<br>
</font>
<br>
<font size="3">Hi Mac,</font>
<br>
<font size="3">Jay just had the same issue and it was
120v from the gen
instead of 120/240. The inverter was charging using
half the windings causing
it to Overtemp.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Check the 60A breakers on the side of the
inverter. Also
make sure to remove the wires from the input terminal
block before measuring
voltage as the inverter will make 120v look like
120/240v at the terminals.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">If the generator is 3 Phase it won't work
with this inverter
unless you only use one leg. This will work but you
will need to turn the
charge rate to 50% in order to prevent Overtemp.
Sometimes it works as
high as 70%.<br>
<br>
Gary Baxter </font>
<br>
<font size="3">Product Manager</font>
<br>
<font size="3">Magnum/Dimensions </font>
<br>
<font size="3"><br>
On Dec 15, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Mac Lewis <</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font
color="blue" size="3"><u>maclewis1@gmail.com</u></font></a><font
size="3">>
wrote:<br>
</font>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size="3">Hi jarmo,</font>
</p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><font size="3">We have verified this is
split phase 120/240. My multimeter
gets 120 L-N and 240 L-L.</font>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size="3">Thanks</font>
</p>
<p><font size="3">On Dec 15, 2014 10:25 AM, <</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com"
target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3"><u>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font
size="3">>
wrote:</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3">Hi:</font><font size="3">
<br>
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
The Generac QT02224GNAX ships as a three-phase 120/208
VAC. I believe
the Magnum is a 120/240 VAC.</font><font size="3"> <br>
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
JARMO</font><font color="#008000" size="3"><br>
_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font
size="3">
</font><font face="Arial" size="1"><b><br>
<br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font color="#008000"
face="Arial" size="1"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font face="Arial"
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Business</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training
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face="sans-serif" size="1">From:</font><font
size="3">
</font>
</td>
<td width="86%"><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Mac
Lewis <</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="1"><u>maclewis1@gmail.com</u></font></a><font
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</font>
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<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">RE-wrenches <</font><a
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target="_blank"><font color="blue"
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:</font><font
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</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">12/15/2014 05:52
AM</font><font size="3">
</font>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:</font><font
size="3">
</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">[RE-wrenches]
Generac QT series</font><font size="3">
</font>
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<font size="3"><br>
</font>
<hr noshade="noshade"><font size="3"><br>
<br>
<br>
Hello wrenches, <br>
<br>
We have a newly installed system that has a 22 kW Generac
Quiet Source </font><font face="sans-serif" size="3">QT02224GNAX</font><font
size="3"> with
a Magnum MS4448-PAE. When we start the generator, the
Magnum's
internal transformer temperature climbs to overtemp (240F)
within a 2 minutes.
The batteries are being floated at the time, and haven't
seen more than
5A coming out of the generator. We swapped the Magnum
out, and we
have the exact same issue. We then got a job-site gas
generator 6500W
and ran it. No problem whatsoever. The problem appears
to be
with the Generac, or with the interaction between the
Generac & the
Magnum. I didn't have a scope on site but the fluke
multimeter doesn't
detect anything wrong with the voltage or frequency coming
from the Generac.
<br>
<br>
Has anyone had issues with the Generac QT? Anyone paired
one with
a Magnum PAE before? I want to get my scope up there and
look for
triplen harmonics, but I'm not sure how to filter these
out. Any
references on how to effectively do that is appreciated. <br>
<br>
Thanks in advance <br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mac Lewis</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><font color="#37605e" size="3">"Yo solo sé
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<font size="3">-- </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Mac Lewis<br>
</font>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5"><font color="#37605e" size="2">"Yo solo sé
que no sé nada." </font><font color="#5f5f5f" size="2">-Sócrates</font>
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______________________________________________________________________<br>
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______________________________________________________________________[attachment
"Generator
Waveform No Load.jpg" deleted by Jarmo
Venalainen/Canada/Schneider]
[attachment "Charger 1st Connected.jpg" deleted by Jarmo
Venalainen/Canada/Schneider]
[attachment "Steady State Operation Editted.jpg" deleted
by Jarmo
Venalainen/Canada/Schneider] [attachment "Zoomed In
Ripple.jpg"
deleted by Jarmo Venalainen/Canada/Schneider] </font><tt><font
size="2">_______________________________________________<span
class=""><br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
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<p>
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</span><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
Mac Lewis<br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:'Times New
Roman';font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">
<p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana,
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:small"><span
style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font
face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé
que no sé nada." </font><span
style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font
face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p>
</font></b></span></div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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