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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/22/2015 12:56 PM, Ray Walters
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:555F89DE.6000302@solarray.com" type="cite">
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Hi Bill;<br>
<br>
If the battery is in an insulated box indoors, it definitely can
over heat. Also if ambient temps get into the 90s, the additional
heat from charging can push the battery into the danger zone. In
hot desert or tropical climates, it may actually be difficult to
keep the battery below 105F. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:555F89DE.6000302@solarray.com" type="cite">
I'm very glad to hear Midnite added the high temp disconnect to
their system. They may have saved a life.<br>
Bob, is battery temp logged, so we could see how often a system
quits charging for high temp, and just what the battery temps are
running?</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
No, but that is on the list as are other things to data log.<br>
<br>
Hopefully the temperature is adjusted higher than it would ever get
to under normal circumstances.<br>
<br>
I could see some future systems wanting to be able to regulate
Absorb on battery temperature mixed with other<br>
parameters some day. Could get REALLY complicated if you wanted
to. We're learning more and more<br>
about what is good for batteries.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:555F89DE.6000302@solarray.com" type="cite">
Many of our systems may need additional cooling. A recent HUP
install in Haiti comes to mind.....<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/22/2015 8:28 AM, frenergy wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:609229E21C2B4D109453FE0CE1F8D323@D8XG8YH1"
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<div>Hey Jay,</div>
<div> </div>
<div> From what I've heard form battery manus, the C
rates likely even in a well PV-ed system still will not
produce C-rates high enough to approach a high or "longevity
reducing" internal battery temp, assuming a typical bulk,
absorb, float cycle. Of course, battery environmental
location (typical temps) would set a baseline from which batt
temp would rise from. Here in the Sierra, ambients are not
very high 95% of the time.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Just curious, how does the wiz bang account for all
loads...2 shunts?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div>Feather River Solar Electric</div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jay.peltz@gmail.com"
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay peltz</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21,
2015 8:07 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[RE-wrenches] FLA battery setpoints with larger arrays</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Allan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I like the classic/wiz bang jr. This allows really
good end amp control as all loads are accounted for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Higher C rates equal higher internal temps which
definitely will shorten the life.<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:56
AM, Allan Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc
1px solid">
<div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR:
rgb(255,255,255)" text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Wrenches,<br>
In the last few years I have changed my approach
to off grid system sizing, primarily due to higher
battery costs and lower module costs. Rather than
shooting for a traditional 80-90% of winter load
profile target, I will size a larger array and
smaller battery bank, figuring (especially here in
the sunny Southwest) that batteries will recharge
more quickly, will spend more of their time full
(and thus last longer), and will be at least
partially charged during cloudy weather. This even
allows for smaller battery banks that are cycled
more deeply (as long as there's a backup gennie in
the mix); the lower cost of a smaller size may
allow for a set of higher-quality industrial
cells.<br>
<br>
I first began to rethink my design approach after
reading Christopher Freitas' Solar Pro article on
large battery banks a few years ago. Being able to
refill in a day was part of his strategic approach
to battery bank design. I used and wrote about
this approach in my tiny house article in the
current Home Power. However, I'm just beginning to
get owner feedback about greater water consumption
and the need for more frequent watering. This is
especially the case when I add array to an
existing system, and the old watering schedule is
suddenly not enough. <br>
<br>
When I design new systems I now encourage larger
arrays and smaller battery banks, as the batteries
spend more of their time happily full and recover
more quickly after a discharge period. But I am
thinking that I will have to begin changing
charging setpoints in response. Flooded batteries
have a range of recommended bulk setpoints, from
28.8 to 29.6 volts on a 24V system. When arrays
were smaller we set to the higher end of the range
to take advantage of topping off when available,
and a two hour or longer absorption was considered
beneficial, as long as the CC could transition to
float at 2% of capacity or so. With a larger array
a better approach may be to lower the
bulk/absorption setting, as well as reduce
absorption time and raise the float transition
current ("done amps"). <br>
<br>
I'm writing to encourage a discussion among off
grid Wrenches. Are you changing the relative
relationship between array and battery capacities?
If so, how are you adjusting charge controller
setpoint programming? For example, how would you
program a Midnite Classic, Outback FM or Schneider
XW if you could achieve a C/10 or C/15 charge
rate?<br>
<br>
Thanks, Allan<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NABCEP
Certified PV Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman
Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span>Positive
Energy, Inc.</span><br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:505%20780-2738"
target="_blank"
value="+15057802738">505 780-2738</a>
cell</b><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
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<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Jay Peltz<br>
Peltz Power<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>
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