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    Hi Bill;<br>
    <br>
    If the battery is in an insulated box indoors, it definitely can
    over heat.  Also if ambient temps get into the 90s, the additional
    heat from charging can push the battery into the danger zone.  In
    hot desert or tropical climates, it may actually be difficult to
    keep the battery below 105F.  <br>
    I'm very glad to hear Midnite added the high temp disconnect to
    their system.  They may have saved a life.<br>
    Bob, is battery temp logged, so we could see how often a system
    quits charging for high temp, and just what the battery temps are
    running?  Many of our systems may need additional cooling.  A recent
    HUP install in Haiti comes to mind.....<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/22/2015 8:28 AM, frenergy wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:609229E21C2B4D109453FE0CE1F8D323@D8XG8YH1"
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      <div>Hey Jay,</div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>        From what I've heard form battery manus, the C rates
        likely even in a well PV-ed system still will not produce
        C-rates high enough to approach a high or "longevity reducing"
        internal battery temp, assuming a typical bulk, absorb, float
        cycle.  Of course, battery environmental location (typical
        temps) would set a baseline from which batt temp would rise
        from.  Here in the Sierra, ambients are not very high 95% of the
        time.</div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>        Just curious, how does the wiz bang account for all
        loads...2 shunts?</div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>Thanks,</div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>Bill</div>
      <div>Feather River Solar Electric</div>
      <blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
        MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
        0px">
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
        <div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
          black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            title="jay.peltz@gmail.com"
            href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay peltz</a> </div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
            href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a>
        </div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21,
          2015 8:07 PM</div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
          FLA battery setpoints with larger arrays</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Allan,
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I like the classic/wiz bang jr.  This allows really good
            end amp control as all loads are accounted for.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Higher C rates equal higher internal temps which
            definitely will shorten the life.<br>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM,
                Allan Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
                    target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:
                  1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px
                  solid">
                  <div style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR:
                    rgb(255,255,255)" text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Wrenches,<br>
                    In the last few years I have changed my approach to
                    off grid system sizing, primarily due to higher
                    battery costs and lower module costs. Rather than
                    shooting for a traditional 80-90% of winter load
                    profile target, I will size a larger array and
                    smaller battery bank, figuring (especially here in
                    the sunny Southwest) that batteries will recharge
                    more quickly, will spend more of their time full
                    (and thus last longer), and will be at least
                    partially charged during cloudy weather. This even
                    allows for smaller battery banks that are cycled
                    more deeply (as long as there's a backup gennie in
                    the mix); the lower cost of a smaller size may allow
                    for a set of higher-quality industrial cells.<br>
                    <br>
                    I first began to rethink my design approach after
                    reading Christopher Freitas' Solar Pro article on
                    large battery banks a few years ago. Being able to
                    refill in a day was part of his strategic approach
                    to battery bank design. I used and wrote about this
                    approach in my tiny house article in the current
                    Home Power. However, I'm just beginning to get owner
                    feedback about greater water consumption and the
                    need for more frequent watering. This is especially
                    the case when I add array to an existing system, and
                    the old watering schedule is suddenly not enough. <br>
                    <br>
                    When I design new systems I now encourage larger
                    arrays and smaller battery banks, as the batteries
                    spend more of their time happily full and recover
                    more quickly after a discharge period. But I am
                    thinking that I will have to begin changing charging
                    setpoints in response. Flooded batteries have a
                    range of recommended bulk setpoints, from 28.8 to
                    29.6 volts on a 24V system. When arrays were smaller
                    we set to the higher end of the range to take
                    advantage of topping off when available, and a two
                    hour or longer absorption was considered beneficial,
                    as long as the CC could transition to float at 2% of
                    capacity or so. With a larger array a better
                    approach may be to lower the bulk/absorption
                    setting, as well as reduce absorption time and raise
                    the float transition current ("done amps"). <br>
                    <br>
                    I'm writing to encourage a discussion among off grid
                    Wrenches. Are you changing the relative relationship
                    between array and battery capacities? If so, how are
                    you adjusting charge controller setpoint
                    programming? For example, how would you program a
                    Midnite Classic, Outback FM or Schneider XW if you
                    could achieve a C/10 or C/15 charge rate?<br>
                    <br>
                    Thanks, Allan<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                        color="#888888"><br>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
                              <span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
                                  target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
                              <span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NABCEP
                                Certified PV Installation Professional<br>
                                NABCEP Certified Technical Sales
                                Professional<br>
                                New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
                                Founder (Retired), <span>Positive
                                  Energy, Inc.</span><br>
                                <b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="tel:505%20780-2738"
                                    target="_blank" value="+15057802738">505
                                    780-2738</a> cell</b><br>
                                <br>
                              </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                               </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </font></span></div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              <div class="gmail_signature">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Jay Peltz<br>
                        Peltz Power<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p> </p>
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