<div dir="ltr">The modular aspect is great, any rich townie just buys a whole bunch of them in parallel.. My worry is the long term, and what equipment works with them, nice 10 year warranty but what is the actual DOD vs cycle life?. And as Todd just pointed at, be realistic, off grid PV professionals, sorry folks - the game that just changed was the PR game, not our real world, batteries. Now you have to convince your potential clients that your actual math on kWh autonomy time is real, and how to break down what the TV news said into watts, amps, amp-hours and watt-hours. And the new game-changer won't give you any details.<div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Dan Fink<div>Buckville Energy</div><div>IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div><div>~ PV Installation Professional</div><div>~ Small Wind Installer</div><div>NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™<br>970.672.4342<br><br> </div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Allan Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Well, I'll go out on a limb and speculate that this is a game
changer. There will be a lot of buzz, and it'll shift general public
perceptions. There'll be a greater mainstream awareness that
"batteries" are improving. A number of my off grid clients are quite
ready for an alternative to FLA batteries. The Teslas may have
strictly limited applications now, but I'll predict that these are
the start of a seismic shift.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span class="">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br></span>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span>Positive
Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b><a href="tel:505%20780-2738" value="+15057802738" target="_blank">505 780-2738</a> cell</b><br>
<br>
<b><u></u><u></u></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<div>On 5/2/2015 7:03 AM, Dan Fink wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The Tesla media kit describes 2 models, a 7kwh and
a 10kwh:
<div>
<p>Tesla’s selling
price to installers is $3500 for 10kWh and $3000 for 7kWh.
(Price excludes inverter and installation.) Deliveries begin
in late Summer.</p>
<p>Powerwall
specs:</p>
<ul>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Mounting: Wall Mounted Indoor/Outdoor</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Inverter: Pairs with growing list of inverters</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Energy: 7 kWh or 10 kWh</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Continuous Power: 2 kW</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Peak Power: 3.3 kW</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Round Trip Efficiency: >92%</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Operating Temperature Range: -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F)</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Warranty: 10 years</li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;outline:none 0px">Dimensions: H: 1300mm W: 860mm D:180mm</li>
</ul>
<div><font color="#666666" face="HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese,
HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese_n5, HelveticaNeue-Regular,
Helvetica Neue Regular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica"><span style="font-size:15px">Nice price point, no info on the
BMS or usable DOD.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Power only 2kW with peak of 3.3kW? Ouch, most off grid
homes do better than that. Also 7-10 kWh of energy storage
would be fine for an small, efficient off-grid home and
conservative user, but my math shows only a few hours of
autonomy time for the typical American homeowner.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dan Fink
<div>Buckville Energy</div>
<div>IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div>
<div>~ PV Installation Professional</div>
<div>~ Small Wind Installer</div>
<div>NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education
Providers™<br>
<a href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 6:45 AM, Chris
Schaefer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Kurt,
since you’re a vermonter perhaps you’ve got an
inside contact with Green Mountain Power that can
shed some light? Same issue here in NY, I’ve got
phone messages and emails asking about it. So we
kinda need to know what the battery voltage is in
order to figure out how many amp hours the bank is.
Wonder how many life cycles, suggested DOD?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Christopher</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
Chris Schaefer’s</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> <img src="cid:part3.05030008.00020709@sindelarsolar.com" alt="SolarWindFX" height="58" width="283"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> Tel/Fax
<a href="tel:585-229-2083" value="+15852292083" target="_blank">585-229-2083</a>
or Cell <a href="tel:585-748-1870" value="+15857481870" target="_blank">585-748-1870</a> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> 5115
South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank">www.solarandwindfx.com</a> ~
E-mail: <a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span></span></p>
<table align="left" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td height="4" width="63"><br>
</td>
<td width="60"><br>
</td>
<td width="12"><br>
</td>
<td width="70"><br>
</td>
<td width="12"><br>
</td>
<td width="88"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td height="1"><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"><img src="cid:part8.08000002.04020901@sindelarsolar.com" height="81" width="60"></td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="2" align="left" valign="top"><img src="cid:part9.04090901.03030907@sindelarsolar.com" height="76" width="70"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td height="75"><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td><br>
</td>
<td rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"><img src="cid:part10.06080901.00010404@sindelarsolar.com" height="81" width="88"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td height="5"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td height="1"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<br clear="ALL">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Thomas
Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution,
once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you
take away from those who are willing to work and
give to those who would not."</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kirk Herander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 02 May, 2015 07:22<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>;
'RE-wrenches'</span></p>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla
Powerwall battery paired with solar</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">John
Berdner of Solaredge (still with them??) in a
previous discussion on this forum has stated
that Solaredge can be AC-coupled, with a
firmware tweak I believe he said.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">Kirk
Herander</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">VT
Solar, LLC </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">Proven
PV provider since 1991</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.vermontsolarnow.com" target="_blank">www.vermontsolarnow.com</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">dba
Vermont Solar Engineering</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">NABCEP<sup>TM
</sup>Inaugural Certificant</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d">VT RE
Incentive Program Partner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:802.863.1202" value="+18028631202" target="_blank">802.863.1202</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Glenn Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 01, 2015 7:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla
Powerwall battery paired with solar</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I
can tell you that the Solar Edge inverters do
not support AC coupling, as their reps told me
at the NABCEP CE conference…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I
have seen pictures of some Solar City battery
systems that use an XW as the inverter.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]" target="_blank">[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>August Goers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 01, 2015 6:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Tesla
Powerwall battery paired with solar</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wrenches,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m sure you’ve seen the Tesla
Powerwall press releases by now:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy" target="_blank">http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are already getting calls
from interested homeowners. The product mostly
seems like a toy for wealthy people but
nonetheless I would like to be educated in how it
works. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is mention that the
battery pairs with Solar Edge inverters which
makes sense because both the Powerwall and Solar
Edge work off of ~350 VDC. But, I can’t figure
out how off grid operation would work during power
outages. Maybe another battery inverter like a
Schneider Conext is required?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any thoughts on this product
for better or worse? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">August</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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