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Hi Bob;<br>
<br>
That's an excellent point. I'm trying to figure out what is a fair
arrangement: 4 years of training is worth quite a sum of money vs.
4 years of labor in the off grid mines. <br>
Straight up $10/ hr and I'll train them for as long as they can be
trained with raises as they reach milestones like: they can go on a
troubleshooting visit on their own.<br>
I think some off grid living experience is a prerequisite as
mentioned before, also they've got to be able to deal with basic
math and electrical equations.<br>
Any other prerequisites before I create an unobtainable person?<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/28/2015 2:03 PM, Bob-O Schultze
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2FF9D644-6F53-4CE9-A472-ABD856017B55@electronconnection.com"
type="cite">An apprenticeship is the original 4 year degree. If
the trainers are good, high quality workpersons, and the
apprentice WANTS to learn, the apprentice will learn the trade.
It's exactly the same in a college situation except that the newly
minted journeyman, unlike a college graduate, will actually HAVE a
trade and experience.
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 17, 2015, at 5:41 PM, Chris Mason wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<p dir="ltr">The US currently puts little value on craft
versus academia, now everyone smart is expected to go to
college. Consequently there is a stigma on vocational
education. When I did my electrical apprenticeship in
Ireland, we did two years of college, one year of training
school and one year in the field. There were 8, 000
applicants for a handful of positions. <br>
I had a third year electrical apprentice from the US work
for me on a three month project we took on. He was
absolutely unqualified and could not answer the most basic
questions on electrical theory. <br>
I recommend you detail the educational opportunities and
fund adequate training enabling the apprentice to acheive
the target qualification.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 17, 2015 4:53 PM, "Ray
Walters" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi All;<br>
<br>
Thanks for the replies so far; I apologize for my
misunderstood attempt at humor in my initial post. I
agree with Chris here, I hire contract labor all the
time, but an apprenticeship is different. Laborers top
out pretty quickly and just aren't capable of learning
the nuances of off grid electric design. Much of the
time that's all that's needed: pick this up and take it
over there,dig here, etc. I'm not looking for labor, as
much as someone who could some day take over the
business ( I'm 50 now) and go out and troubleshoot
systems on their own. I consider off grid solar to be
more of a craft than mere construction contracting.<br>
An apprenticeship implies a much longer term arrangement
where they may be paid less, but can expect training to
the point of getting their electrical license and making
a career out of it. I'm having a much harder time
finding the sort of person that wants to make that sort
of commitment both in time and in learning. Folks that
have the smarts and ambition necessary are already busy.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<pre cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
<div>On 4/17/2015 6:22 AM, Chris Mason wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I'm not sure how the term is used in
America, but generally "apprentice" does not mean
cheap labour. An apprentice program should be an
education path to a qualification with state
recognized standards, such as Electrician or
Plumber. if you just want inexpensive labour, that's
not an apprentice, that's a helper, labourer,
intern. As someone who started life as an electrical
apprentice, I object to seeing apprenticeships
shortchanging the applicants.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at
7:27 PM, Dana <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"
target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I interview &
definitely check references including:
look at a tape measure and tell me what
those little marks are between 0 &
1”, & I look in their truck or car.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>If it’s clean
they may take care of your vehicle then
same and if it’s a mess that’s what you
can expect them to do to your truck. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Are they smokers?
Is that OK in your truck?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Can they work
without checking their cell phone every
time it goes Ding or rings?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Do they have
their own tools and do they know how to
operate tools like your hydraulic draw
punch or wire tugger without F%$ing it
up or hurting themselves?</span></p>
<div><span> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Does anyone do a
background check on new hires?</span></p>
<div><span> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dana Orzel </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Great Solar
Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>E - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"
target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>
- Web - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://solarwork.com/"
target="_blank">solarwork.com</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>O - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970.626.5253"
value="+19706265253" target="_blank">970.626.5253</a>
C - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:208.721.7003"
value="+12087217003" target="_blank">208.721.7003</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People
since 1988" </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
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<div><span> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 16,
2015 4:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches]
Apprentice</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Folks;<br>
<br>
I am considering hiring an apprentice, and
I wanted to know if any else has tried
this, and what advice and experience
everyone had to offer.<br>
Also what would be the best way to
advertise: Craig's List? <i><br>
<br>
Wanted passionate techy soul to share
warm fires and cold brews with, watch
beautiful sunsets over off grid arrays
in remote locations, sometimes carry
leaky hazardous materials</i>.....<br>
mmmm. Obviously I need some help.<br>
<br>
Thanks in Advance,<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>R.Ray Walters</pre>
<pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc</pre>
<pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, </pre>
<pre>Licensed Master Electrician</pre>
<pre>Solar Design Engineer</pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
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-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Chris Mason
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
style="font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified
Solar PV Installer™</span></div>
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target="_blank">264.235.5670</a></div>
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