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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
      <br>
      May I please add....<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      1) Must know the difference between AC and DC.<br>
      <br>
      2) Must be able to identify what each prong is when shown an AC
      plug.<br>
      <br>
      boB<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 4/28/2015 6:35 PM, Dan Fink wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAF+3LneE9YHSwHvwj7XbbW3PZsfWRAXh3U-tJn-pc8v7ZM3vew@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Esteemed Wrenches:
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I teach hands-on <i>Intro to PV</i> and<i> Intro to Solar
            Therma</i>l at a 2-year technical college in Denver. Some of
          my students are on track to be field installers or designers
          (and will take more advanced classes next term), while others
          are focusing more on green building, LEED, sustainability etc.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><b>To pass my classes, at the end of the term they need to:</b></div>
        <div>
          <ul>
            <li>Be familiar with the basic terminology of each
              technology<br>
            </li>
            <li>Know how to read a system diagram and understand how the
              system works<br>
            </li>
            <li>Look at a real system in the field and draw a system
              diagram of it, and know the function of each component<br>
            </li>
            <li>Know how to correctly use basic instruments (multimeter,
              solar pathfinder etc) to take measurements<br>
            </li>
            <li>Know how to safely enable and disable a system to safely
              troubleshoot problems<br>
            </li>
            <li>Be able to look up and understand manufacturer's
              specifications and installation manuals online (example -
              torque specs)<br>
            </li>
            <li>Know all safety and PPE requirements for any field task<br>
            </li>
            <li>Have basic knowledge of safe and effective use of basic
              installation tools<br>
            </li>
            <li>Assemble their own basic tool kit so they are prepared
              for their first internship/apprenticeship etc</li>
            <li>Be able to safely perform a simple task on their first
              job, for example "Test and record the Voc and Isc of each
              PV module in this array, each string and the whole array."
              or "Test, record, and maintain each battery in this bank"
              and (<b>hopefully</b>) "The system isn't charging the
              battery bank/ pumps are not circulating the HTF -- see if
              you can find out what's wrong."<br>
            </li>
          </ul>
        </div>
        <div>I am trying my best to educate, but it always depends on
          the student's dedication, goals and dreams. And if one of my
          students ever uses me as a reference to you, I promise you an
          honest assessment. And if they can't do these things in an
          advanced class next term, I'll certainly hear about it from
          the other professors!</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
          <div>
            <div class="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">Dan Fink
                <div>Buckville Energy</div>
                <div>IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div>
                <div>~ PV Installation Professional</div>
                <div>~ Small Wind Installer</div>
                <div>NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing
                  Education Providers™<br>
                  970.672.4342<br>
                  <br>
                   </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Ray
            Walters <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi Bob;<br>
                <br>
                That's an excellent point. I'm trying to figure out what
                is a fair arrangement:  4 years of training is worth
                quite a sum of money vs. 4 years of labor in the off
                grid mines.  <br>
                Straight up $10/ hr and I'll train them for as long as
                they can be trained with raises as they reach milestones
                like: they can go on a troubleshooting visit on their
                own.<br>
                I think some off grid living experience is a
                prerequisite as mentioned before, also they've got to be
                able to deal with basic math and electrical equations.<br>
                Any other prerequisites before I create an unobtainable
                person?<span class=""><br>
                  <pre cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
                </span>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <div>On 4/28/2015 2:03 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">An apprenticeship is the
                      original 4 year degree. If the trainers are good,
                      high quality workpersons, and the apprentice WANTS
                      to learn, the apprentice will learn the trade.
                      It's exactly the same in a college situation
                      except that the newly minted journeyman, unlike a
                      college graduate, will actually HAVE a trade and
                      experience.
                      <div><br>
                        <div>
                          <div>On Apr 17, 2015, at 5:41 PM, Chris Mason
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br>
                          <p dir="ltr">The US currently puts little
                            value on craft versus academia,  now
                            everyone smart is expected to go to
                            college.  Consequently there is a stigma on
                            vocational education. When I did my
                            electrical apprenticeship in Ireland, we did
                            two years of college, one year of training
                            school and one year in the field. There were
                            8, 000 applicants for a handful of
                            positions. <br>
                            I had a third year electrical apprentice
                            from the US work for me on a three month
                            project we took on. He was absolutely
                            unqualified and could not answer the most
                            basic questions on electrical theory. <br>
                            I recommend you detail the educational
                            opportunities and fund adequate training
                            enabling the apprentice to acheive the
                            target qualification.</p>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 17, 2015 4:53
                            PM, "Ray Walters" <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
                              target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>>
                            wrote:<br type="attribution">
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi
                                All;<br>
                                <br>
                                Thanks for the replies so far; I
                                apologize for my misunderstood attempt
                                at humor in my initial post.  I agree
                                with Chris here, I hire contract labor
                                all the time, but an apprenticeship is
                                different.  Laborers top out pretty
                                quickly and just aren't capable of
                                learning the nuances of off grid
                                electric design.  Much of the time
                                that's all that's needed: pick this up
                                and take it over there,dig here, etc. 
                                I'm not looking for labor, as much as
                                someone who could some day take over the
                                business ( I'm 50 now) and go out and
                                troubleshoot systems on their own.  I
                                consider off grid solar to be more of a
                                craft than mere construction
                                contracting.<br>
                                An apprenticeship implies a much longer
                                term arrangement where they may be paid
                                less, but can expect training to the
                                point of getting their electrical
                                license and making a career out of it. 
                                I'm having a much harder time finding
                                the sort of person that wants to make
                                that sort of commitment both in time and
                                in learning.  Folks that have the smarts
                                and ambition necessary are already busy.<br>
                                <br>
                                Thanks,<br>
                                <pre cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
                                <div>On 4/17/2015 6:22 AM, Chris Mason
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">I'm not sure how the
                                    term is used in America, but
                                    generally "apprentice" does not mean
                                    cheap labour. An apprentice program
                                    should be an education path to a
                                    qualification with state recognized
                                    standards, such as Electrician or
                                    Plumber. if you just want
                                    inexpensive labour, that's not an
                                    apprentice, that's a helper,
                                    labourer, intern. As someone who
                                    started life as an electrical
                                    apprentice, I object to seeing
                                    apprenticeships shortchanging the
                                    applicants.</div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr
                                      16, 2015 at 7:27 PM, Dana <span
                                        dir="ltr"><<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"
                                          target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>></span>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div bgcolor="white" link="blue"
                                          vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
                                                interview &
                                                definitely check
                                                references including:
                                                look at a tape measure
                                                and tell me what those
                                                little marks are between
                                                0 & 1”, & I look
                                                in their truck or car. </span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>If
                                                it’s clean they may take
                                                care of your vehicle
                                                then same and if it’s a
                                                mess that’s what you can
                                                expect them to do to
                                                your truck. </span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Are
                                                they smokers? Is that OK
                                                in your truck?</span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Can
                                                they work without
                                                checking their cell
                                                phone every time it goes
                                                Ding or rings?</span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Do
                                                they have their own
                                                tools and do they know
                                                how to operate tools
                                                like your hydraulic draw
                                                punch or wire tugger
                                                without F%$ing it up or
                                                hurting themselves?</span></p>
                                            <div><span> </span><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Does
                                                anyone do a background
                                                check on new hires?</span></p>
                                            <div><span> </span><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dana
                                                  Orzel </span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Great
                                                  Solar Works, Inc - 
                                                  NABCEP # 051112-136</span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>E
                                                  - <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a> 
                                                  - Web - <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://solarwork.com/" target="_blank">solarwork.com</a> </span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>O
                                                  - <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970.626.5253" value="+19706265253" target="_blank">970.626.5253</a> 
                                                  C - <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:208.721.7003" value="+12087217003" target="_blank">208.721.7003</a></span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>"Responsible

                                                  Technologies for
                                                  Responsible People
                                                  since 1988"  </span><span></span></p>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy">
                                                </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Please


                                                  consider the
                                                  environment before
                                                  printing this email.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""></span></p>
                                              <div><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div><span> </span><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div
                                                style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                #b5c4df
                                                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
                                                0in 0in">
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
                                                    RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                      href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                                                      target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                                                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray
                                                    Walters<br>
                                                    <b>Sent:</b>
                                                    Thursday, April 16,
                                                    2015 4:50 PM<br>
                                                    <b>To:</b>
                                                    RE-wrenches<br>
                                                    <b>Subject:</b>
                                                    [RE-wrenches]
                                                    Apprentice</span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div> <br>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi
                                              Folks;<br>
                                              <br>
                                              I am considering hiring an
                                              apprentice, and I wanted
                                              to know if any else has
                                              tried this, and what
                                              advice and experience
                                              everyone had to offer.<br>
                                              Also what would be the
                                              best way to advertise:
                                              Craig's List?  <i><br>
                                                <br>
                                                Wanted passionate techy
                                                soul to share warm fires
                                                and cold brews with,
                                                watch beautiful sunsets
                                                over off grid arrays in
                                                remote locations,
                                                sometimes carry leaky
                                                hazardous materials</i>.....<br>
                                              mmmm.  Obviously I need
                                              some help.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Thanks in Advance,<br>
                                              <br>
                                            </p>
                                            <pre>-- </pre>
                                            <pre>R.Ray Walters</pre>
                                            <pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc</pre>
                                            <pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, </pre>
                                            <pre>Licensed Master Electrician</pre>
                                            <pre>Solar Design Engineer</pre>
                                            <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
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                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br clear="all">
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    -- <br>
                                    <div>
                                      <div dir="ltr">Chris Mason
                                        <div>
                                          <div
                                            style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
                                              style="font-size:13px">NABCEP
                                              Certified Solar PV
                                              Installer™</span></div>
                                          <div
                                            style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Solar Design Engineer</span></div>
                                          <div
                                            style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
                                              style="font-size:13px">Generac
                                              Generators Industrial
                                              technician</span></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div
                                          style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
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