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    Dana,<br>
    (A bit slow to respond here...) I don't understand what you wrote
    below: "<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="-2"><span
        style="font-size: 14pt; color: black;">full load charging
        usually only lasts but a few minutes as the inverter charge rate
        drops readily as voltage rises."<br>
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        <p class="MsoNormal">The full load charge will last as long as
          the inverter remains in bulk. Only when it climbs to absrption
          voltage does it begin to ramp back its charge rate. If full
          charge lasts only minutes, either you have batteries that are
          trashed, or your charge rate is too high for your battery
          bank. Am I missing something?<br>
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          But to answer your question: not that I'm aware of, at least
          in LPG.<br>
          Allan<br>
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            Allan Sindelar</b><br>
          <span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
              href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
          <span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
            Installation Professional<br>
            NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
            New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
            Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
              Energy,
              Inc.</span><br>
            <b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/9/2015 8:56 AM, Dana wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:007201d072d5$5b431d70$11c95850$@com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I agree but
            full load charging usually only lasts but a few minutes as
            the inverter charge rate drops readily as voltage rises.
            8300 watt -10,000 watts or 13000 watts the point is why we
            are installing air cooled throw away generators that run so
            fast & hot that they need to be replaced in 2,000 hours,
            not to mention the fuel consumed at 80 MPH?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Is there a
            slow speed (1200-1800 rpm) water cooled 8-13 KW generator
            out there?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Dana Orzel
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Great Solar
            Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">E -
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a>  - Web - solarwork.com <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">O -
            970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">"Responsible
            Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  </span><span
            style="font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
              style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy">
          </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Please
            consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
            Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
              Jerry Shafer [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>] <br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:02 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Question on Back up
              generators<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">We don't install anything smaller then
              a 13 k its air cooled but works well, as far as the
              numbers you have, Mine are somewhat different I use max
              potential load and max potential charge as when the
              batteries are low the genny must not only supply the home
              but also charge the bank back up at a reasonable rate, so
              if the loads are high and the genny only has enough to
              maintain that load then what about the batteries plus I
              only use 75% of the genny rating for optimum or improved
              duty cycle. This is only me and I am sure every shop has
              there own math. <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Jerry <o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Dana
              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Hey
                    All – </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I
                    just got off of a phone call with my Onan generator
                    supplier. Last conversation with Kohler was the same
                    story basically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I
                    was informed that their smallest water cooled
                    generator, the RS22 (22 KW) is now no longer “rated
                    “for off grid. They actually called me to confirm
                    that this generator was for backup power to a
                    utility inter connected house. Tier 4 generators in
                    the EPA CFR 40 is the Federal code what covers this,
                    & you are allowed 100 hours of run time for
                    standby power and maintenance per year. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Q -
                    Why am I using ridiculous sized generators for
                    something that an 82-8300 watt generator does just
                    fine?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">A -
                    The EPA current requirements, a shrinking economy,
                    & manufacturers that have to meet very expensive
                    air quality compliance. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">The
                    Penalty - If you get caught running a “standby power
                    only” generator the fine is now $39,000 per day! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Now
                    I am far from a polluting kind of individual and all
                    for air quality but this is getting the best of us.
                    The 13KW air cooled generators are only good for
                    2000 hours, & the water cooled go 20 years of
                    moderate usage but cost a boat load. I hate having
                    the “Generator” talk with a new client they look at
                    me like I am crazy. So the air cooled units are
                    basically throwaways and the 22KW units are way more
                    than we need and what a client needs to spend money
                    on, unless you are at 10,000 ft el.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">If
                    you figure 30 amps/120 VAC input per inverter +/- x
                    2 = 7.2KW plus say 10-15% fudge or elevation factors
                    would require an 8200-8300 watt generator. Air
                    cooled at 3600 RPM = 80 MPH & 1800 RPM = 40
                    MPH.  Even if the generator were a bit smaller, ran
                    slow (1200-1800 rpm) and ran a bit longer that would
                    be acceptable. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">So,
                    why are we installing even 13KW air cooled or 22 KW
                    water generators?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">There
                    is a business opportunity here folks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">What
                    are you all installing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Why?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Is
                    it reliable?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Would
                    you use it on your house?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks
                    for sharing all the wisdom and knowledge.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
                      style="font-family:"Century
                      Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Dana
                      Orzel</span></b><span
                    style="font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><span
                      style="font-family:"Century
                      Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Great
                      Solar Works, Inc -  <b>NABCEP # 051112-136</b></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
                      style="font-family:"Century
                      Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">E</span></b><span
                    style="font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> -
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a> 
                    - <b>Web</b> - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://solarwork.com" target="_blank">solarwork.com</a>
                  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
                      style="font-family:"Century
                      Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">O</span></b><span
                    style="font-family:"Century
                    Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> -
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:970.626.5253"
                      target="_blank">970.626.5253</a>  <b>C </b>- <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:208.721.7003"
                      target="_blank">208.721.7003</a> - No FAX Line</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><u><span
                        style="font-family:"Century
                        Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">"Responsible
                        Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
                      </span></u></b><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy">
                  </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Please
                    consider the environment before printing this email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
              _______________________________________________<br>
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              <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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