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Dana,<br>
(A bit slow to respond here...) I don't understand what you wrote
below: "<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="-2"><span
style="font-size: 14pt; color: black;">full load charging
usually only lasts but a few minutes as the inverter charge rate
drops readily as voltage rises."<br>
</span></font>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The full load charge will last as long as
the inverter remains in bulk. Only when it climbs to absrption
voltage does it begin to ramp back its charge rate. If full
charge lasts only minutes, either you have batteries that are
trashed, or your charge rate is too high for your battery
bank. Am I missing something?<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
But to answer your question: not that I'm aware of, at least
in LPG.<br>
Allan<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><br>
Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/9/2015 8:56 AM, Dana wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I agree but
full load charging usually only lasts but a few minutes as
the inverter charge rate drops readily as voltage rises.
8300 watt -10,000 watts or 13000 watts the point is why we
are installing air cooled throw away generators that run so
fast & hot that they need to be replaced in 2,000 hours,
not to mention the fuel consumed at 80 MPH?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Is there a
slow speed (1200-1800 rpm) water cooled 8-13 KW generator
out there?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Dana Orzel
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Great Solar
Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">E -
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a> - Web - solarwork.com <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">O -
970.626.5253 C - 208.721.7003<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Please
consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Jerry Shafer [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Question on Back up
generators<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We don't install anything smaller then
a 13 k its air cooled but works well, as far as the
numbers you have, Mine are somewhat different I use max
potential load and max potential charge as when the
batteries are low the genny must not only supply the home
but also charge the bank back up at a reasonable rate, so
if the loads are high and the genny only has enough to
maintain that load then what about the batteries plus I
only use 75% of the genny rating for optimum or improved
duty cycle. This is only me and I am sure every shop has
there own math. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jerry <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Dana
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Hey
All – </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I
just got off of a phone call with my Onan generator
supplier. Last conversation with Kohler was the same
story basically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">I
was informed that their smallest water cooled
generator, the RS22 (22 KW) is now no longer “rated
“for off grid. They actually called me to confirm
that this generator was for backup power to a
utility inter connected house. Tier 4 generators in
the EPA CFR 40 is the Federal code what covers this,
& you are allowed 100 hours of run time for
standby power and maintenance per year. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Q -
Why am I using ridiculous sized generators for
something that an 82-8300 watt generator does just
fine?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">A -
The EPA current requirements, a shrinking economy,
& manufacturers that have to meet very expensive
air quality compliance. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">The
Penalty - If you get caught running a “standby power
only” generator the fine is now $39,000 per day! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Now
I am far from a polluting kind of individual and all
for air quality but this is getting the best of us.
The 13KW air cooled generators are only good for
2000 hours, & the water cooled go 20 years of
moderate usage but cost a boat load. I hate having
the “Generator” talk with a new client they look at
me like I am crazy. So the air cooled units are
basically throwaways and the 22KW units are way more
than we need and what a client needs to spend money
on, unless you are at 10,000 ft el.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">If
you figure 30 amps/120 VAC input per inverter +/- x
2 = 7.2KW plus say 10-15% fudge or elevation factors
would require an 8200-8300 watt generator. Air
cooled at 3600 RPM = 80 MPH & 1800 RPM = 40
MPH. Even if the generator were a bit smaller, ran
slow (1200-1800 rpm) and ran a bit longer that would
be acceptable. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">So,
why are we installing even 13KW air cooled or 22 KW
water generators?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">There
is a business opportunity here folks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">What
are you all installing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Why?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Is
it reliable?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Would
you use it on your house?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks
for sharing all the wisdom and knowledge.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Dana
Orzel</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Great
Solar Works, Inc - <b>NABCEP # 051112-136</b></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">E</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> -
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>
- <b>Web</b> - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://solarwork.com" target="_blank">solarwork.com</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">O</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"> -
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:970.626.5253"
target="_blank">970.626.5253</a> <b>C </b>- <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:208.721.7003"
target="_blank">208.721.7003</a> - No FAX Line</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><u><span
style="font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
</span></u></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green">Please
consider the environment before printing this email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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