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Gary,<br>
Mac's approach is intelligent and will work well, as an automated
system with the right hardware. We took a quite different approach
on a somewhat similar scenario in 2009.<br>
<br>
This was a Kohler 8.5REZ, with the electric carb heater and AC
charter for the starting battery. No block heater, but that could
have been handled the same way. The inverter was a Magnum MS4024PAE,
but that doesn't matter here. When we ran the bundle of gennie
output conductors, we added a separate load circuit conductor, on
its own breaker in the system E-Panel. Here's an excerpt from the
original proposal description about our approach:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt">The
unit uses an electronic generator controller with modest
(estimated at 200-700
mA, depending on state of operation) draw on the starting
battery. This
controller drops to minimal “sleep” draw automatically after
48 hours of
non-operation. This generator does not have a starting
battery charging coil,
but rather uses a separate AC battery trickle charger to
maintain the battery.
I will install a 20W PV module and small charge controller
on the generator to
keep the starting battery charged. I will also install the
AC charger to
operate whenever the generator is running. While this
combined setup has worked
successfully for other installers with whom I have spoken,
if this proves insufficient
I can later add a switch and relay to allow the charger to
also operate off of
inverter AC if ever needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt">The
unit also requires a built-in carburetor heater to operate
during cold weather.
This heater is normally controlled by a thermostat to
conservatively come on at
or below 40°F, which would mean that it would operate nearly
continuously
during <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Taos</st1:place></st1:city>’
winter months, draining the PV system. My solution is to put
the carburetor
heater on a manual mechanical one-hour time switch located
at the generator;
you will activate the heater through this switch 15-30
minutes before starting
the generator. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</o:smarttagtype></blockquote>
This may not work for you. This is a modern doublewide serving as a
seasonal family meeting place, rather than a full time residence.
With our usual sunny winters, we figure that if nobody is there,
loads are minimal, and we don't want automatic (unattended)
generator operation. I think we used a DG WP box inside the
generator enclosure, with a mechanical timer (maybe one-hour)
controlling a GFCI receptacle, with carb heater and battery charger
plugged in.<br>
<br>
I hope that gives you some ideas you can use.<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/2/2015 9:10 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOABG48wDr4kkO8-d3YHM1pu-+QJsUfeADZstNCTX_EEjJ7U4g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Gary,
<div>We have implemented a preheat strategy that has really
worked well at a site using dual sunny islands. They have a
load shed function built in with the control relays. We are
using that function to add the block heater load. When a
generator start is likely (~50% SOC) it triggers a relay that
energized the block heater. The generator start is then
programmed at a lower SOC (~30% SOC). It takes some guesswork
to know how many watt hours its going to take to get the block
heated up, but we conservatively chose and have fiddled with
it. I imagine this can be done with either the Radian or the
XW, and you could trigger with voltage instead of SOC, but SOC
is a superior way to do it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another way is to use a propane block heater. This will
work well, but they use quite a bit of propane, and are very
expensive (~$1500).</div>
<div>Good luck</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary
Higbee <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gary@windstreamsolar.com" target="_blank">gary@windstreamsolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Wrenches,<br>
I'm curious what strategies you use to preheat a propane gen
in cold climates. This is a large off-grid design in a
sub-zero winter climate and ideal would be to turn on a
block heater an hour or two in advance, then run the gen
cycle. We plan to use either a Schneider XW or Outback
Radian configuration (still very interested in which you'd
use and why). We could set up a logic/relay system to first
send the gen request to the heater for a while and then turn
off and initiate a gen cycle but that would eliminate the
ability for autostart on short notice. I've read of heat
lamps on a thermostat, just wondering if you have seen other
solutions.<br>
Thanks!<br>
Gary<br>
</blockquote>
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