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I forgot to mention one basic thing in the last email...<br>
<br>
I mentioned how the CC reduces the output current and output
voltage<br>
but what I didn't mention is that when the battery gets fully
charged, and/or<br>
the battery side can not use the power from the solar or hydro or
wind source,<br>
the controller opens up the input letting the turbine free-wheel.
<br>
<br>
It may either raise the input voltage as high as it can go to keep
the battery voltage<br>
and current in check, OR in your case it went above 250 volts and
then<br>
to Resting which is OFF.<br>
<br>
The primary purpose of the CC is to keep the battery voltage from
rising above<br>
the charging set point and to give the battery maximum
power/current when<br>
it needs charging.<br>
<br>
Most MPPT charge controllers operate this way.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/19/2015 11:57 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:550B1BFF.1020908@midnitesolar.com" type="cite">
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Jeff, I am sorry you did not get a proper answer from tech
support to a very basic question like this.<br>
I don't know who you talked with so we will flog all of them
equally.<br>
<br>
I am glad that particular sentence was removed from the manual
as it was not correct. You can only<br>
keep the charge controller ON if it is safe for the batteries to
do so.<br>
<br>
The reason that the Classic goes to resting is because raising
the input voltage is (usually) the only way to<br>
reduce battery voltage and current on its own. Insomnia will
not keep the Classic operating above 250 volts<br>
input... What "Insomnia" does is to keep the Classic from going
to Resting due to low power output (< ~20 watts).<br>
It won't help when the batteries are full or over full.<br>
<br>
Since you are VERY slightly over 250 volts when free-wheeling,
the first thing I would try is to turn OFF<br>
the Classic mode and adjust the nozzles or flow to the turbine
until it drops below 250 volts. Then no<br>
matter what, it will turn on... That is, as long as the water
flow does not increase too much to cause<br>
the voltage to rise above 250 volts again when nobody is
looking.<br>
<br>
Another thing that can be done, or in addition to reducing the
free running Voc is to lightly load the<br>
turbine with a resistor. Better yet, use 2 or 3 resistors to
load the AC side a wee bit. This works well<br>
especially if the Max Power Point voltage is quite a ways below
the Voc so these resistors don't have<br>
to dissipate all that much power. I would think that this
method would not be necessary though.<br>
<br>
NEXT thing to do is to adjust the Classic's battery charge set
point voltage to somewhat higher<br>
than that of the FM charge controllers so that the Classic is
almost always charging (when not in Float).<br>
OR, adjust the FM60/80 charge voltages slightly lower than the
Classics' set point voltage.<br>
Or, a compromise, one slightly higher than wanted and the other
slightly lower charge voltage<br>
to give both systems that "distance" between them. This way,
the FMs will always be helping out<br>
in MPPT modes and Absorb/Float just won't matter much where that
current comes from.<br>
This method will mean that the Classic is always loaded some
except for those times when the<br>
charge current required from it is zero or very close to zero.<br>
<br>
Roy Rakobitsch also has a good idea which is closer to being a
Clipper by using a 3-phase AC SSR,<br>
(3 Triacs), connecting all 3 phases of the turbine together.
Doing this on the AC side is important.<br>
You don't want to short out the rectified DC input to a charge
controller for various reasons.<br>
If you go this route, the best control is to use Aux 2. Be sure
to go to Clipper mode to make<br>
sure it is set to AC mode. You could then use Clipper mode or
PV ON HIGH mode using<br>
higher frequency PWM activation of the SSR. I like the Teledyne
3-phase triac SSRs personally<br>
if you decide to go this route.<br>
<br>
First, just turn down the flow slightly to reduce that free
running Voc. That is probably the<br>
quickest, simplest and cheapest method.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/19/2015 10:26 AM, Windsine Inc. wrote:<br>
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<blockquote
cite="mid:CAL2u1udXMgUZXMx4-dxBKzjU2dJwDkVA8nnYVCboRifdeuTf1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">You could use a triac to feed AC from
turbine directly to the dump load just before HyperVOC using
the Aux relay in classic to fire the Triac. Then program the
Aux logic to revert to normal when turbine voltage/RPM drops
from dump load loading.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Kinda like an Aux triggered bypass
circuit</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>Roy Rakobitsch</div>
<div>NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer®</div>
<div>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®</div>
<div>NYSERDA eligible Small Wind installer</div>
<div>Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety & Rescue</div>
<div>Wind/PV Design Engineer</div>
<div>Windsine LLC</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:631-514-4166"
value="+16315144166" target="_blank">631-514-4166</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.windsine.org/" target="_blank">www.windsine.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:53 AM,
Jeff Oldham <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:starpower4u@juno.com" target="_blank">starpower4u@juno.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Finding this application quite frustrating - Harris
120Vdc 1kW turbine, Classic 250, 48V batt., 1200W load
dump. The manual downloaded just before purchase
stated: "This mode will NOT go to resting even when
the input has been disconnected and will always stay
awake so the turbine has the least chance of
over-spinning." It now seems that this is not the case
and this sentence is no longer in the manual. My
installer cannot get Midnite to confirm one way or the
other and they have been guessing for over a month on
how to keep the CC from going into RESTING that open
circuits the hydro and puts the CC into hyperVOC at
253V and will never reconnect. To complicate things
there is also ~4kW of PV on FM60's, when they drive up
batt V. to above what the Classic wants it drops into
RESTING and back into HyperVoc. Midnite has been very
responsive and have suggested every possible setting
and combination and my installer has made the 3 hour
RT drive far too many times to only find the most
recent "suggestion to try" another approach not
working. INSOMNIA does not do as the name implies and
still allows the CC to step out if external charging
elevates the V above what the Classic wants. i.e. FM60
in Bulk, Absorb or EQ. when the Classic wants to
Float. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I fully realize that the Clipper will deal with
this for a considerable amount of money, but I've
heard of several folks using a Classic or Outback w/o
a Clipper to deal with turbines w/o allowing
freewheeling and runaway VOC. If the turbine is not
dropped by the Classic the VOC will never exceed
120Vdc. Is there anyone of you out there that knows:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Is there a way to keep a Classic from ever
moving into RESTING, a true INSOMNIA? If it will not
do as originally stated in the manual I need someone
to step up and say so, so we can stop guessing and
wasting time.</div>
<div>2) If so what is the secret, please?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I really like all of Midnite's products and they
are better than most with reasonable prices, support
has always been 1st rate. This application oddly seems
to have all of us at a loss pulling our hair out and
losing money.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>With much appreciation for all input.<br>
<br>
<br>
From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff
Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions</div>
<br>
<br>
<font color="#000000">____________</font><br>
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