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<DIV><SPAN class=166525420-17032015><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Thanks, Matt for the details here. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=166525420-17032015><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=166525420-17032015><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I will
be heading out to the site in the next little while and will report back what
was found. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=166525420-17032015><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=166525420-17032015><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Kevin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Matt
James<BR><B>Sent:</B> March 17, 2015 12:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240
breaker tripping<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Kevin,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Not
sure what happened on the dropped communication, but I had responded to you
last week with some possible answers and things to check. I think I made
the mistake of replying directly to your email address and not sending to the
entire Re-Wrenches forum, sorry for that as I know this is information that
could be helpful to others as well.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In
any case, Tump is right -- on an existing system where everything has been
working fine for some time but now isn’t, the key is to isolate, isolate,
isolate. Turn off all AC input, output and transformer breakers, then
wake up each inverter by increasing the Power Save Level Master Adjust one
step at a time. Confirm proper AC voltage line to neutral at the
inverter’s AC output terminals – all breakers are still open.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Close
the breaker to the X240 balancing transformer, then close the AC output
breakers of one inverter at a time, starting with the Master. Confirm
that all inverters are on and have proper voltage and phasing by verifying
proper AC voltage line to neutral, line to line as measured at the AC output
terminals and to the output bus bars – all inverters should show 120
L-N, and any inverters programmed as L1 Slaves should show 0v L-L to the
Master and 240v L-L to L2 Slaves. L2 slaves <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">This
establishes a baseline to ensure that all the power electronics, magnetics,
wiring and programming are working properly. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Next,
start the generator and close all the input breakers. Measure AC voltage
at the inverter’s input terminals, confirm that each is seeing the proper
voltage and phasing. Verify that the inverters sync to and connect to
the generator, and begin to charge. Measure the AC current on both
phases of the generator, and verify that they are balanced.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Some
potential issues are:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">1.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Bad
X240 breaker. Take a spare, 20A 2 pole DIN.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">2.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Transformer
insulation damaged, typically by overheating. Rather unlikely, but
possible.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">3.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Failed
or mis-wired or mis-programmed inverter, likely on L2. Due to the
distance to the site, consider taking a replacement board set with you.
Alternately, the system can operate on both legs with the other inverters,
even if it’s an uneven number, through OutBack Stacking until you can schedule
another trip.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">4.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Heavily
imbalanced load or generator.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
the charging currents on the generator are imbalanced, one possible solution
is to disconnect the neutral from the generator at the power system end.
This presents a pure 240v load to the genset, which will force the currents to
be balanced on both phases. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Feel
free to contact me directly if you have any problems or
questions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Best
Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Matt
James<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Applications
Engineering Manager<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">OutBack
Power Technologies Inc.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Direct:
(360) 618-4364<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Cell:
(360) 618-2869<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Kevin
Pegg<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 16, 2015 10:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240
breaker tripping<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thanks
for everyone's advise on this one. I've done as much as I can working with the
caretaker remotely and will need to attend myself with some test gear to fully
diagnose. This site is remote (10h of driving then 1h boat ride). I
generally make a point of avoiding Outback product so feel much better
informed to diagnose when onsite - later in the week. Thanks.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Curious
what is going on with Outback's tech support. I waited on hold for a bit on
Wednesday, then left a message for callback and am still waiting for that
callback 3 business days later. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">My
client is most upset that Outback can't even bother to return a tech call.
His instructions to me are if we find multiple failed
components in the system and not simple fixes to remove the gear and
replace with "anything as long as it's not Outback".
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Will
advise the list what was discovered once onsite. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Kevin</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> RE-wrenches [<A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>frenergy<BR><B>Sent:</B> March 16, 2015 6:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240
breaker tripping</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Kevin,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> Not to add any
confusion but I recently had to re-program the slave in a 2 VFX with Xfrmr
system as it was doing the same thing...the 2 pole xfrmr breaker was
tripping when a moderate load was on. Granted this was not happening
during charging though. I think I changed the slave from OB slave L1
to OB slave L2 and all was good. It doesn't seem likely the
programming in your case would have been messed with having been working
well for years prior. Curious to hear though of a solution
eventually.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Bill<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Feather River Solar Electric<BR>4291 Nelson
St.<BR>Taylorsville, CA 95983<BR>530.284.7849 / 6544
fax<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=tump@swnl.net href="mailto:tump@swnl.net">Tump</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Monday, March
16, 2015 5:39 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker
tripping<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Have you turned the breaker on the t240 to the off
position? One does NOT have to have that operational for the system to
operate correctly.The old t240 has about the same parasitic draw as an
inverter. Isolate, Isolate, Isolate. If the system functions correctly w/
the t240 off and the stacking is correct on this q stack disconnect it(the
t240). Otherwise I would remove the inverter com cables and only connect 1
pair of inverters at a time, reset the mate with the correct com cables
connected to P1& P2. Sometimes something so simple as disconnecting
& reconnection the mate can have quite a benefit. Again I would, if
you are really stuck on having the t240 operational, then try it with each
inverter as a single unit then try the second set of inverters. Disconnect
the #s1&2 inverters and do the same; connect #s 3&4 P1 & P2,
to see exactly which component may be your problem. <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You are more then happy to contact me off list if you
choose. contact info below. Tump<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jerry Shafer
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> Wrenches<BR>OK if the X240 blows the fuse which
is on the output of the inverter while the inverter is charging, excessive
current must be passing through from one inverter and back to the output
of another inverter ( a form of AC coupling gone bad). The time delay fits
as the inverter ramps up, I would look at the contactors in each slave as
one may be hanging or ther may be a bad board, easy way to test is to
isolate each inverter and with a amp meter connected at the X240 see if
current goes away in the X240 as it should not be doing much with light
loads on the "House" side of the inverters. The X240 is 25 amps while the
inverters are 50 amps. Sounds like a interesting one to
diagnose.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jerry<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Chris Worcester
<<A href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com"
target=_blank>chris@solarwindworks.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hi Kevin, <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I have seen the X240's trip off like this
when theyare over loaded. When this was happening to us the slave
inverters had blown AC boards and some times Control and FET boards
too. We had a hard time diagnosing this as their green lights were
on. Using a clamp on amp meter on each inverter's AC IN
conductor while charging with the gen set allowed us to compare their
charging currents to each other. Typically the ones with blown AC
boards output would be close to zero amps. So the X240's were doing double
duty and they will smoke too if the inverters aren't delta
with. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Sincerely, <SPAN class=hoenzb><SPAN
style="COLOR: #888888"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN class=hoenzb><SPAN
style="COLOR: #888888"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Chris
Worcester</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888"><A href="tel:530-448-9692"
target=_blank>530-448-9692</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888"> Sent from my Galaxy
S®III<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>From: Kevin Pegg <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Date:03/11/2015 1:19 PM (GMT-08:00)
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>To: RE-wrenches <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker
tripping <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Hello Wrenches,
<BR><BR>Customer in remote location has a strange situation come up on an
existing system installed (by others) 6 or so years go. Quad stack
VFX3648. <BR><BR>Last night gen start was triggered by low voltage - a
normal system operation. <BR><BR>Approx 1h into charge, they lost 1/2 the
circuits in house - L2 de-energized. Caretaker went to check power system
and noticed the X240 breakers tripped. Tried to reset but it tripped out
right away. So he left it as is and called me in the morning.
<BR><BR>Here's what I've been able to determine today: <BR><BR>- The x240
is installed to bridge L1 & L2 on the load side. <BR>- with master
inverter on, 3 slaves off, both L1 and L2 energized so suggests x240 is
working. <BR>- within 10 seconds of generator on and charging, x240
breaker trips (and makes L2 go dark). <BR>- loads are minor, ~1,000 w of
misc lights and such, isn't all loaded up on one leg. <BR><BR>Appreciate
any thoughts to remedy. I'm not as familiar with this config as others.
<BR><BR>Kevin Pegg<BR>EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. <BR>37471 Hwy 16
E<BR>Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2<BR><A href="tel:250-846-9888"
target=_blank>250-846-9888</A><BR><A
href="http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca/"
target=_blank>Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca</A>
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