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Regarding the clipping, which the power electronics guys would
rather I call "power limiting"...<br>
<br>
To be clear, "Longer 100% production around noon" (implied in that
image that this is somehow beneficial) means "this system could have
produced more energy but didn't because the inverter was too small."
Assuming similar efficiencies, a 300W micro-inverter clearly would
have produced more energy on that day than the 250W inverter. I
imagine that what you mean was that if you're locked into a certain
ac limit here (either you can only use a 250W micro, or maybe your
service conductors limit your ac rating) then yes, a higher dc/ac
ratio may have more power limiting but will produce more energy at
the expense of your kWh / kWdc yield (a consideration for some
projects).<br>
<br>
Given that the ABB inverters have their highest efficiencies at the
higher end of their power outputs, which is not where PV modules
typically operate (unless you stick a 400W module on it), I'm
curious whether a typical 280W module would actually produce more
energy over a year with an Enphase 240W vs the ABB 300W in most
locations. Over the full Enphase power range it's more efficient
than the ABB:<br>
<br>
At ~100W dc input, Enphase is at about 96.4% efficient and the ABB
300W is at 95.8%. <br>
At ~250W input: Enphase 96.4%, ABB 96.1%. <br>
And yes, at 315W input: Enphase 76.2% steady-state, ABB 96.4%.<br>
<br>
It could go without saying (but I have momentum) that you should not
spend $2000 on a larger inverter(s) that will help your array
produce $200 more energy over its 25-year life. It's up to you to
figure that out given your site conditions and as noted in the last
thread that addressed this topic, weather data probably
underestimates the benefit due to its averaging out most short-term
edge-of-cloud effects.<br>
<br>
Anyway, maybe C250s would meet the OP's needs and they're actually
the slightest bit more efficient than the standard 240W unit. That
is, until you add the transformer since the output is 220-248V L-N.
That presumably makes the ABB the efficiency winner, but hopefully
the above is still useful. Sorry, no personal experience with any of
the ABB/APS/C250 units. I probably should have opened with that to
save you some time.<br>
<br>
DKC<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015/2/10 13:05,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com">Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:OF3D14A417.39B150E5-ON88257DE8.006190E4-88257DE8.00635EB3@US.Schneider-Electric.com"
type="cite"><font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">One thing to keep in mind with
clipping,
(module over sizing), is that if a system has 10%-15% off
clipping, that
will not affect total annual energy harvest and depending on
dust and temperature
conditions will likely even improve it.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Heres' a graph which shows the
energy
harvest graphically for a 250W module with a 250W inverter and a
and 300W
module with a 250W inverter.</font>
<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part1.06000909.09070501@fsec.ucf.edu"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">
</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Please note the graph does not
include
any dust effects. To compensate for dust, the modules should
always
be of the order of 4% more powerful than the inverter, unless
you plan
on washing modules every month.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Related to this, large commercial
systems
we have been supplying inverters to are 30-70% oversized as the
sinking
cost of modules makes the return on investment come out as
maximized in
that range of oversizing,</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">JARMO <br>
</font><font color="#008000" size="3">_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font
size="3">
<br>
</font><font face="Arial" size="1"><b><br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font color="#008000"
face="Arial" size="1"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font face="Arial" size="1"><b>
| Xantrex
Brand</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Sales Application
Engineer</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Tech Support:</b>
800-670-0707
| <b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font
color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font
face="Arial" size="1">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.xantrex.com/" target="_blank"><font
color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><u>
www.Xantrex.com</u></font></a><font face="Arial" size="1">
|
<b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 <br>
</font>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">From:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Drake
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"><drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org></a></font>
</td>
</tr>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">To:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>,
</font>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">02/10/2015 06:51 AM</font>
</td>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [RE-wrenches] 300W
72 cell micro
inverters</font>
</td>
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<td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Sent
by:</font>
</td>
<td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"RE-wrenches"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a></font></td>
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<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><font size="2">That would be at the 120% rating, so by rule
of <br>
thumb, OK. I have a ground mount that has a <br>
ration of 1.15% with M-190s (figuring 199 W / <br>
inverter). It has quite a bit of clipping in the <br>
spring. It has optimized tilt for the location. A <br>
ballasted roof mount with a 10 or 15 degree tilt <br>
likely wouldn't have that issue.<br>
<br>
This system went in the spring of 2010, and has <br>
only had one M-190 failure out of 24, amazingly enough.<br>
<br>
At 10:22 AM 2/9/2015, you wrote:<br>
>What do you typically get out of a 300 watt panel for
production when
you<br>
>are grid tied? I know in theory (STC) it is a 300 watt
module but we<br>
>rarely if ever (except in very cold weather)see near that
for an output.
I<br>
>use (as a general, 77 degrees F) design parameter, 77% for
overall
power<br>
>production output output. I'm sure you would get a little
clipping,
but I<br>
>guess a significant amount would depend on a number of
variables on
the<br>
>site, time of the year, weather conditions, etc.<br>
><br>
>Daryl<br>
><br>
><br>
> > Yeah....if you're OK with a not insignificant amount
of clipping
going on.<br>
> ><br>
> > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > From: RE-wrenches [</font></tt><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><tt><font
size="2">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2">]
On<br>
> > Behalf Of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:penobscotsolar@midmaine.com">penobscotsolar@midmaine.com</a><br>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 2:33 PM<br>
> > To: RE-wrenches<br>
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 300W 72 cell micro
inverters<br>
> ><br>
> > Hey Jason,<br>
> > The M-250's work well with LG 300 watt (60 cell)
modules.<br>
> ><br>
> > Daryl<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >> Hi Jason,<br>
> >><br>
> >> The Enphase C250 Microinverters for three-phase
commercial<br>
> >> applications does work with 72 cell modules.<br>
> >><br>
> >> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Jason
Szumlanski <<br>
> >> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >>> The ABB micros seem to be solid and easy to
install.
We have two<br>
> >>> sites with them with no issues.
Unfortunately, the monitoring
system<br>
> >>> sucks compared to Enphase and was far more
difficult
to set up. I<br>
> >>> really wish Enphase would come up with a
good 72 cell
option because<br>
> >>> we find ourselves competing with 300W
modules occasionally,
and<br>
> >>> consumers (irrationally) jump to the
conclusion that
bigger is<br>
> >>> better.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> [image: Logo-Sq-80.png]<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Jason Szumlanski<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Principal Solar Designer<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Florida Solar Design Group<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> (239) 491-8010 office<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> (239) 410-4985 mobile<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Authorized Sales Agent for Fafco Solar<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> [image: Fafco-Solar-Enphase-Logo.png]<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> License CVC56701<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Bill
Hennessy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bill@berkssolar.com"><bill@berkssolar.com></a><br>
> >>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>> Hi folks--<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> We're planning a micro inverter install
using 300W
72 cell modules<br>
> >>>> for an area with a fair amount of
shading. The choices
we've found<br>
> >>>> are ABB micro<br>
> >>>> 0.3 or APS YC500A.<br>
> >>>> Any stories to tell about either of
these or another
suggestion?<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Thanks for your time.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Bill Hennessy<br>
> >>>> Berks Solar, LLC<br>
> >>>> 371 Centennial Rd<br>
> >>>> Mertztown, PA 19539<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> o 610 682 4300<br>
> >>>> c 484 560 4666<br>
> >>>> NABCEP certified installer<br>
> >>>> PA contractor #44411<br>
> >>>> </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.berkssolar.com"><tt><font size="2">www.berkssolar.com</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>
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> >>><br>
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> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >><br>
> >> Cordially,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Nick Soleil<br>
> >> *Enphase Energy* | Field Applications Engineer<br>
> >><br>
> >> office 707-763-4784
<%28707%29%20763.%204784> x7267
cell 07-321-2937<br>
> >><br>
> >> <</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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> >><br>
> >> *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The
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Energy Management<br>
> >> System<br>
> >> <</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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> >> <</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
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> >><br>
> >> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315<br>
> >><br>
> >> Texas Master Electrician #284451<br>
> >><br>
> >> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsoleil@enphaseenergy.com"><nsoleil@enphaseenergy.com></a><br>
> >><br>
> >> “Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear
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It’s<br>
> >> just that I<br>
> >> prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens
that there’s
an<br>
> >> enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few
million miles
from us. It<br>
> >> delivers more than we could ever use in just
about 8 minutes.
And<br>
> >> it’s wireless!”<br>
> >><br>
> >> - William McDonough<br>
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> >><br>
> >><br>
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> > </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><tt><font size="2">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
> ><br>
> > Check out or update participant bios:<br>
> > </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size="2">www.members.re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
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>List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
><br>
>Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
></font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><tt><font
size="2">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
><br>
>List-Archive: <br>
></font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"><tt><font
size="2">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
><br>
>List rules & etiquette:<br>
></font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><tt><font size="2">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
><br>
>Check out or update participant bios:<br>
></font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size="2">www.members.re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><tt><font
size="2">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"><tt><font
size="2">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><tt><font size="2">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size="2">www.members.re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
<br>
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Security.cloud service.<br>
______________________________________________________________________<br>
</font></tt>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
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