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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That’s the reason it is so essential to get as fresh a batch as possible and make sure all are fully charged before installation. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill Dorsett<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Manhattan, KS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 19, 2014 7:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have installed/serviced thousands of battery based systems, I have not seen any reversed cells either, but I know how it happens.<br><br>Here's a thought on what could cause multiple lower capacity cells in a bank. >From the moment a battery is not being charged, including newly assembled batteries, it is self discharging and lead sulfate is forming on the plates. If left uncharged or undercharged for months, which could be date of assembly to date of installation, the capacity could be affected due to ionic bonding (a level 2 sulfate bond blocking SO4 from finishing the electrochemical process by discharging its electron to Pb). Simply put, less surface area is available so there is less capacity. Unless the installation date is within 60 days or less of the manufacturing date, this could happen.<br><br>If these damaged batteries were then mixed with healthy ones, this could account for multiple low capacity cells and the scenario I described in my previous email would apply. <br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Larry Crutcher<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Starlight Solar Power Systems<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 12/19/14 12:23 PM, Jay Peltz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I find it really curious. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I've been dealing with batteries for almost 20 yrs. I've seen so many dead, flat batteries, systems etc I can't count them all. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But I've yet to find a reversed one. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I understand the process. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm trying to understand how he could get multiple reversed batteries at one go?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Jay <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Peltz power <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:47 AM, <a href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com">Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi:</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This cell reversal ability of lead acid batteries gives good perspective on just how much you can mistreat them and beat them up and still have an expectation of "recovery".</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Lithium cells on the other hand without a full range of protections would have long since filled the home with all kinds of interesting high temperature thermal events, gaseous compounds and chemicals, and there is no way you could get that magic smoke back into them.</span> <br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>JARMO <br></span><span style='color:green'>_____________________________________________________________________________________</span> <br><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Jarmo Venalainen</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | </span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green'> Schneider Electric </span></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | Solar Business</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training & Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591 | <b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>Email:</b> </span><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b>Site:</b></span><a href="http://www.sesolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> www.SEsolar.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> | <b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 <br></span><u><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><br></span></u><a href="http://%20www.sesolar.com/"><mime-attachment.jpg></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</span> <br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>From:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Corey Shalanski <<a href="mailto:cshalanski@joule-energy.com">cshalanski@joule-energy.com</a>></span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>To:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>, </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Date:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>12/19/2014 06:48 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Subject:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>Sent by:</span> <o:p></o:p></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br>Update on my investigation: <br>I visited the customer's house yesterday to set up a pulse charger. Much to my surprise the three batteries that originally registered negative voltage are now reading positive. Does this make sense - are batteries able to shift between negative and positive voltages at such a low charge level? <br><br>I do not see any evidence of distorted cases. <br><br><br>On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM, <<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay@asis.com</a>> wrote: <br><br>I second tump.<br>Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.<br>As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look damaged such as expanded or sunk in?<br><br>Jay<br>Peltz power <br><br>______________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>