<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I've never been on a site where I've
seen this either. That's one reason why I find this group so interesting.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">For me it makes sense if you consider
the following,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1. The only difference between the positive
and negative plate in a flooded lead-acid battery is the lead compound
that was pressed and cured onto it during manufacture. When fully
charged, the negative plate is mostly Lead and the other mostly Lead Oxide.</font>
<br>
<br><img src=cid:_1_0C3559E80C3555B80078B5A788257DB3 width=688 height=540>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2. The charge-discharge equation is:
</font>
<br>
<br><img src=cid:_1_0C33DB580C33D7280078B5A788257DB3 width=803 height=225>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">3. If you fully discharge, (I
mean to the bitter end), then all of the Lead, Lead Oxide and acid has
been turned into Lead Sulphate and pretty much pure water.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">4. If you can get some current to flow
through the pure water, (sulphation crystals and the poorly conducting
pure water in between the plates is one reason why dead batteries initially
"wont accept a charge"), then when it starts charging, I guess
the battery doesn't care which plate it starts depositing the Lead and
Lead Oxide onto.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">5. With a string of 24pcs of 2 volt
cells, if 16 of them are making the proper voltage and 8 of them are 100%
dead with no voltage, then the voltage applied by the good cells will appear
as a reversed voltage on all the dead cells.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">6. The dead cells see this as a charging
voltage which causes the Lead and Lead oxide to begin forming on the wrong
plates.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">7. As long as there is persistent load
on the bank which refuses to go away at any voltage, then I suppose in
the limit, the reversal could happen in up to 1/2 of the cells in the battery
bank.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">For your site, it means regardless of
what else may have happened, there must have been a persistent load on
the batteries with no active charging source present. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">JARMO</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font><font size=3 color=#008000>_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training &
Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591 |
<b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href=http://www.sesolar.com/ target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.SEsolar.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial"> |
<b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 <br>
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Jay Peltz <jay@asis.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">12/19/2014 11:54 AM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged
Battery Bank</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>I find it really curious. </font>
<br><font size=3>I've been dealing with batteries for almost 20 yrs. I've
seen so many dead, flat batteries, systems etc I can't count them all.
</font>
<br><font size=3>But I've yet to find a reversed one. </font>
<br><font size=3>I understand the process. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>I'm trying to understand how he could get multiple reversed
batteries at one go?</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Jay </font>
<br><font size=3>Peltz power </font>
<br><font size=3><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:47 AM, </font><a href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=3 color=blue><u>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=3>
wrote:<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi:</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
This cell reversal ability of lead acid batteries gives good perspective
on just how much you can mistreat them and beat them up and still have
an expectation of "recovery".</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Lithium cells on the other hand without a full range of protections would
have long since filled the home with all kinds of interesting high temperature
thermal events, gaseous compounds and chemicals, and there is no way you
could get that magic smoke back into them.</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
JARMO </font><font size=3 color=#008000><br>
_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
<br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training &
Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591 |
<b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href=http://www.sesolar.com/ target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.SEsolar.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial"> |
<b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 </font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><font size=3 color=blue><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http:// www.sesolar.com/"><font size=3 color=blue><u><mime-attachment.jpg></u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
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<br>
</font>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=13%><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td width=86%><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Corey Shalanski <</font><a href="mailto:cshalanski@joule-energy.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>cshalanski@joule-energy.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">></font><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">12/19/2014 06:48 AM</font><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged
Battery Bank</font><font size=3> </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"RE-wrenches" <</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">></font></table>
<br><font size=3><br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=3><br>
<br>
<br>
Update on my investigation: <br>
I visited the customer's house yesterday to set up a pulse charger. Much
to my surprise the three batteries that originally registered negative
voltage are now reading positive. Does this make sense - are batteries
able to shift between negative and positive voltages at such a low charge
level? <br>
<br>
I do not see any evidence of distorted cases. <br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM, <</font><a href=mailto:jay@asis.com><font size=3 color=blue><u>jay@asis.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
I second tump.<br>
Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.<br>
As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look damaged such
as expanded or sunk in?<br>
<br>
Jay<br>
Peltz power <br>
<br>
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