<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">What I've learned is that with such
a large company as this, there are very likely different practices and
policies in the multitude of business groups throughout various countries.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">One thing that has happened, which I
like, is that we have been given more autonomy for the Solar Group and
I know that many manuals are not protected, although I haven't gone through
all of them.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I'll pass on your suggestion to keep
all our manuals unprotected to the tech writing team.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">JARMO</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font><font size=3 color=#008000>_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training &
Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591 |
<b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href=http://www.sesolar.com/ target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.SEsolar.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial"> |
<b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 <br>
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http:// www.sesolar.com/"><img src=cid:_2_0CEB7BD80CF4380C00754F1188257D87></a><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"William Miller" <william@millersolar.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">11/05/2014 12:57 PM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Searchable, notable
Code</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial">Jarmo:</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial">Adding notes is half of the
equation. If the document is many pages in length (the XW AGS manual
is 120 pages) you need to be able to add bookmarks. You cannot do
this with a protected manual. I prefer that manufacturers not protect
PDFs. You cannot extract pages from (for a permit application, for
example) or bookmark protected PDFS.</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial">I noted that the XW AGS manual
is not protected. Thank you for that. What is Schneider’s
current policy on protecting PDFs?</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial">William</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><img src=cid:_2_0CF506C40CF4DD1400754F1188257D87 alt="Gradient Cap_mini"><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Lic 773985</font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.millersolar.com/><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>millersolar.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
805-438-5600</font>
<br><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches [</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 face="Tahoma">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:46 PM<b><br>
To:</b> RE-wrenches<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Searchable, notable Code</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Hi:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
I use a PDF writer to put in edit comments. Here is an example I
made out of a page in one of manuals,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
JARMO</font><font size=3 color=#008000 face="Times New Roman"><br>
_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
<br>
Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>CANADA</b> | <b>Training &
Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +604-422-2528 | <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591 |
<b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href=http://www.sesolar.com/ target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.SEsolar.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial"> |
<b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 </font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://%20www.sesolar.com/><img src=cid:_2_0C7149680C71395000754F1188257D87></a><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
</font>
<p>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=12%><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">From:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td width=87%><font size=1 face="Arial">"William Miller" <</font><a href=mailto:william@millersolar.com><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>william@millersolar.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">To:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">"'RE-wrenches'" <</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">>,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Date:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">11/05/2014 12:12 PM</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Subject:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">[RE-wrenches] Searchable, notable Code</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Sent by:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">"RE-wrenches" <</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font></table>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<div align=center>
<hr noshade></div>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
Friends:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
We have been seeing a lot of good commentary here on code questions. I
need to be able to access these in the future at a time when I may not
have thought about a specific issue for some time and need to be able to
get my head around a concept in a hurry. Searching the Wrenches archives
is not an efficient method. I need the information right in my copy
of the code, at the exact location it applies.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
My first electronic (PDF) version of the code from NFPA came packaged in
a product called “Folio Viewer.” This was a great product that
allowed advanced search functions and sophisticated bookmarking. Unfortunately
this program is no longer available, a real shame.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
We all have a need to markup our own versions of the code. Currently
I “break” the electronic protection of the PDF version using an on-line
service (</font><a href=http://online2pdf.com/><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><u>http://online2pdf.com/</u></font></a><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial">).
I can then create my own bookmarks, margin notes and links. I
add comments like those below using the ‘sticky notes’ function of Acrobat
Pro and bookmark oft-used passages. I also create links to cited
sections, making it easier to navigate.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
Does anyone else have suggestions as to how to retain notes and pertinent
comments within the code?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
William</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><img src=cid:_2_0C719C580C718C8800754F1188257D87 alt="Gradient Cap_mini"><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Lic 773985</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.millersolar.com/><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>millersolar.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
805-438-5600</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=#004080 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
From:</b> RE-wrenches [</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rebekah Hren<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 05, 2014 9:55 AM<b><br>
To:</b> RE-wrenches<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Code reference request</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
Hi Dana, <br>
If you bond the the ac and dc grounding systems using the optional method
outlined in 690.47(C)(3), then the AC EGC and the DC GEC can be the same
conductor (regardless of TL or not). And this section of the Code
specifically allows the DC GEC to be sized per 250.122 for <u>ungrounded</u>
systems (and not larger than the ungrounded conductors). So in some ways
this is an end run around the GEC question. <br>
<br>
However, if the inverter manual says to follow 250.166 sizing requirements,
then I'd think 110.3(B) is going to take precedence for this installation
and you don't have much choice except to have a minimum 8AWG DC GEC conductor
and installed per 250.64 - but it could serve the purpose of the
AC EGC too. <br>
Cheers, <br>
Rebekah <br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Dana Brandt <</font><a href=mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>dana@ecotechenergy.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote: <br>
Thanks for the reply and article, August. John Wiles's article makes a
clear statement that the GEC is not required for TL inverters. I wish the
code would say it that clearly! I think I'm going to have a tough time
convincing inspectors the GEC isn't required with such unclear language
in the code. We'll see....<br>
<br>
Thanks again! <br>
<br>
Dana<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.ecotechenergy.com/ target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>www.ecotechenergy.com</u></font></a><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>dana@ecotechenergy.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
360.318.7646 <br>
<br>
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:45 PM, August Goers <</font><a href=mailto:august@luminalt.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>august@luminalt.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote: </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
Hi Dana,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
This is still a confusing issue, I agree. This article helps a bit:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.nmsu.edu/~tdi/pdf-resources/IAEI%20Mar_Apr%202012.pdf" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>http://www.nmsu.edu/~tdi/pdf-resources/IAEI%20Mar_Apr%202012.pdf</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
If you look in a SMA TL inverter installation manual, for example, they
only mention equipment grounds – there is no reference to a GEC that I
can find. The 2014 code doesn’t seem to have clear wording on not requiring
a GEC to me but Rebekah’s recap below is spot on. Luckily it is widely
accepted in our neck of the woods that TL inverters don’t need GECs. <br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
I’m not familiar with the Solectria TL product. It sounds like it will
be best to call them if you need to install one of their inverters. <br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
Best, <br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
August</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b><br>
From:</b> RE-wrenches [mailto:</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dana Brandt<b><br>
Sent:</b> Monday, November 03, 2014 12:06 PM<b><br>
To:</b> RE-wrenches<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Code reference request</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
I think I'm a bit confused on this point. I can't seem to find the code
that specifically exempts the GEC requirement for inverters of ungrounded
PV systems. The only exception I can find is only for AC PV modules (2014
NEC 690.47 (C) ). <br>
I just looked in the installation manual for Solectria's new TL inverters
and found this:<br>
"Per NEC 690.47, a GEC must be installed, and the Grounding Electrode
Terminal (GET) conductor must be sized in accordance with NEC article 250.166."
<br>
What am I missing?<br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
<br>
Dana<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.ecotechenergy.com/ target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>www.ecotechenergy.com</u></font></a><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>dana@ecotechenergy.com</u></font></a><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=tel:360.318.7646 target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>360.318.7646</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Rebekah Hren <</font><a href=mailto:rebekah.hren@o2energies.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>rebekah.hren@o2energies.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote: <br>
If you are on 2014: <br>
690.47(B) </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">An ac equipment grounding system
shall be permitted </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">to be used for equipment grounding
of inverters and other </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">equipment <b>and for the ground-fault
detection reference for <br>
ungrounded PV systems.</b></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
<br>
and 690.47(C)(3) </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><b>For ungrounded systems, this
conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 </b>and shall</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">not be required to be larger than
the largest ungrounded </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">phase conductor. </font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Gary Willett <</font><a href=mailto:Gary@icarussolarservices.com target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>Gary@icarussolarservices.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote: <br>
Kirk:<br>
<br>
A DC grounding electrode conductor (GEC) is not required for inverters
that do NOT have a ground reference for the PV+ and PV- conductor(s) from
the PV array.<br>
<br>
A GEC is not required if the string inverter is one of the new TL (transformerless)
types. Also, this applies to micro-inverters such as the new Enphase
M250 and later versions of the M215.<br>
<br>
Where this applies, only a properly sized equipment grounding conductor
(EGC) is required.<br>
<br>
The EGC is sized according to [NEC 690.45] and can be a minimum of #14AWG
when not exposed to damage, or #6AWG when exposed to potential damage.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Gary Willett PE<br>
Icarus Engineering LLC <br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/28/14, 12:53 PM, Kirk wrote: <br>
Hi,<br>
I'm on a jobsite without my code book. Could someone tell me where in the
code ungrounded systems do not require the inverter GEC? Basically my onsite
electrician doesn't believe me. Thanks.<br>
<br>
Kirk Herander<br>
VSE<br>
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