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--></style></head><body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Hi Bill,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">You have a good point about the burden of monitoring and how to keep up with it. We have hundreds of monitored sites, some Enphase and some others, and it is impossible to really check them thoroughly. However, most monitoring sites have some basic warning capabilities which I find useful. For example, Enphase will send us and the client an email if their system stops producing power or if there is another type of inverter error. It won’t catch minor issues but it does catch the major issues. SunPower has a dashboard we log into each morning to catch any major problems – especially “inverter down” errors. I’m hoping SunPower will implement an email warning system as well.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The main problem I see with installing microinverters without the proprietary monitoring device (Envoy for Enphase, CDD for ABB, etc) is that there is no easy way for the client to know if all their micros are working – there is no green light or red light to check.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Here in the Bay Area we’re finding more and more competitors selling leases and production guarantees. I imagine that the larger of these companies have some sort of automated monitoring system to check production but I don’t know for certain. With our SunPower leases, SunPower sends us a monthly email with production updates versus the simulated estimate based on our shade and site conditions. This is a really quick way to see how our fleet is doing. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">To Ray Walters’ point about powerline communication with Enphase, we’ve had very reliable monitoring with our Envoys once we started installing a dedicated receptacle for the Envoy at the same load center where we installed our microinverter breakers. I can’t think of a single instance where communication hasn’t been reliable. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">We also don’t sell monitoring to clients who show little interest in it. They can check their string inverter on a regular basis or keep their eyes on their bills and it does make everyone’s life a little easier. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Anyway, there is no doubt that monitoring adds a lot of overhead to our business and we are trying to figure out better ways to setup expectations with clients. As I’ve posted in the past, we end up dealing with a lot of IT issues for homeowners.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Best,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">August</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Luminalt</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>frenergy<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 29, 2014 7:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">All,</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> Great points and a little education of others' feelings about, essentially how granular we need to be in monitoring. </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> I'm curious who is monitoring the Enphase systems in the solar world, seriously. I know 95% of my customers are more concerned about catching the bus or what's for dinner than if PV #8 has bird crap on it. Do the folks at Enphase, through Enlighten have some software that spots issues? I know I, as an installer don't have time for it. My experience is the customer notices their power bill was higher last month, they take a look at the inverter and no green light...CALL BILL.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> Thanks folks for the resources for meters, din rail too.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Bill</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><img width="306" height="103" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CFDC7B.522888B0"></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">----- Original Message ----- </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#e4e4e4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" title="glenn.burt@glbcc.com">Glenn Burt</a> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</a> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Monday, September 29, 2014 5:17 PM</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I would not classify what we are doing in PV as SCADA.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It is purely data acquisition at this point, and more commonly referred to as DAS or a Data Acquisition System.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">SCADA by its definition entails a two way path of both receiving data and being able to send control signals, usually from a big picture program, monitoring dozens of data points.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Let’s not try to make the simple into a more complex thing than it is.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-Glenn</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> RE-wrenches [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 29, 2014 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The 2nd problem with the Envoy besides cost is that it isn't always reliable. Communication through power lines is not a new or fresh idea, and has Always been problematic. Once you install something you are expected to make it work, and that can be a nightmare on say an 8 module system that keeps losing communication to one or two modules. I've had this exact case, and confirmed multiple times that each micro was working, but the Envoy had other ideas.<br>This rush to mega data acquisition makes sense for larger PPA systems, but can just add tons of call backs and the resulting financial losses and frustrations for small systems.<br>I've spent as much time messing with SCADA, as I have with the entire install itself; now that's ridiculous. This isn't new either: I had SCADA systems back in the 90s, that had great promise, but ultimately were extremely hard to implement, and the customer never used after anyway......<br>The question is: <br>What does the customer really need to operate the system vs. "bells and whistles".....</p><pre>R.Ray Walters</pre><pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc</pre><pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, </pre><pre>Licensed Master Electrician</pre><pre>Solar Design Engineer</pre><pre>303 505-8760</pre><p class="MsoNormal">On 9/29/2014 12:12 PM, August Goers wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Hi Bill,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">One of the largest benefits of the microinverter system, in my opinion, is the ability to monitor each module individually. It might seem like ~$500 is a lot for the Envoy but I think it is well worth it when you think about the 25 year warranty period and included ongoing monitoring. We’ve had enough Enphase failures that I would personally really want to be able to keep my eye on each micro individually.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Just a thought, August</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>frenergy<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Metering</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">CA wrenches,</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> I'm trying to (for the sake of my monetarily impaired customers) figure out a less expensive way to meter/monitor small enphase systems. One of my local utilities will allow me to just use a remanufactured utility-grade meter (ala AEE) These meters are inexpensive, robust and accurate but only display total production. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> The Envoy retails for over $5 bills. Most of my customers are not interested in checking their PV system on the internet, well not after a couple weeks. I can't seem to find any requirement from PG&E other than in Section 5.1 of the guidebook: " All systems receiving an EPBB incentive must install a production meter accurate to +- 5% of actual system output...." which is pretty vague. plus the is no CSI incentive anymore.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Anybody have a suggestion that is different from the remanu utility meter?....and possibly gives current wattage output, and is "approved" by PG&E interconnection?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">TIA</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Bill</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="306" height="103" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CFDC7B.522888B0"></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</pre><pre> </pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:</pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:</pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>Check out or update participant bios:</pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="color:windowtext"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:windowtext">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></p></blockquote></div></body></html>