<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Bruce,</div><div>We routinely cut off DWV as suggested by earlier posts so that they are at least 1 inch below the surface of the back of the module.</div><div><br></div><div>To be clear these are sewage intake air vents and not exhaust vents for heating appliances. </div><div><br></div><div>We do place a quarter inch wire cloth over the cut off vent and apply a four inch stainless steel hose clamp around the pipe just to prevent foreign objects from entering the vent pipe. </div><div><br></div><div>I have never had an inspector question this method. <br><br><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">With Regards</span><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Carl Adams, President</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">SunRock Solar</span></div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="tel:513.290.9072" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="0">513.290.9072</a> (cell)</span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="tel:513.766.6025" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">513.766.6025</a> (office)</span></font></div></div><div><br>On Sep 24, 2014, at 1:37 PM, Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I agree with Kurt: you need a licensed
plumber in your area to advise you, if you're trying to keep the
AHJs happy .<br>
2nd, I'm very sure you don't want an exhaust/ combustion type
vent under the array. I've had several over the years, and seen
some arrays installed over them. They can get fairly hot and put
quite a bit of steam out. I would not trust the module backing
material to a concentrated long term dose; which module is going
to have a problem first? <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 9/24/2014 11:16 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAF70bw7uVss0ES-c08W3Vv39gaLtBTBCY4QOsjFW2kJ+TLnSeQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Should you decide to lower
your
plumbing vents I have found an inside pipe cutter to be an
inexpensive and
handy tool. Cut the vent and lead off an inch above your
desired pipe height
and use the inside cutter to cut the pvc pipe. Go slow and
be careful to keep
air space between the pvc and lead as the lead will cut very
easily. </span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Also I wouldn't rely on us
well
intentioned wrenches to make the call on the plumbing code
in your
jurisdiction. Though the state plumbing codes are usually
based on the
international code, there will be differences. If you can't
pull up your state
plumbing code online then ask your plumbing inspector. In
Florida the minimum
height above a roof surface is 6" (904.1). As for relocating
905.2 states
that “all vent and branch vent pipes shall be so graded and
connected as to
drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity”. Table 710.1(1)
shows that for 1.5”
pipe a slope of ¼” per foot is sufficient to handle 3
fixtures. I would take
that to indicate ¼” / foot is plenty for a 1.5” vent. </span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Dave
Click <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu" target="_blank">daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Flipping through the
'04 plumbing code I see a few slopes called out (1/4" per
1' for fixture vents, 1" per 1' for circuit vents, 1/2"
per 1' for combination drain/vent...). Fixture vents have
a maximum distance of a few feet from fixture trap to
vent, but I don't think this prevents you from then
running that vent horizontally. 916.2 states that for
vents other than stack vents or vent stacks if your vent
is >40' you need to upsize the whole vent pipe (tough
to do for an existing building, of course). Stack vents
have a "maximum developed length" of 100' for a 1.5" vent
which should be enough space to get away from under the
PV. I don't see any slope requirements specifically for
stack vents but my non-plumber's eye may be missing
something.<br>
<br>
The stack vent sizing Table 916.1 appears (in part) here
too and it looks like the tables match up to a 2.5":<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/drainage-vents-d_1110.html" target="_blank">http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/drainage-vents-d_1110.html</a><br>
<br>
DKC
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 2014/9/24 10:19, Jason Szumlanski wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.7272720336914px">I am
unable to find anything in the Florida code
that precludes covering a plumbing vent. The
code does require the vent to be 6" above the
roof surface I believe.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.7272720336914px"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.7272720336914px">I was
unable to determine if these vents need to be
vertical with no bends in the attic. Obviously
you wouldn't want to create a trap in the
attic, but a couple of 45's to relocate a
plumbing vent to accommodate more PV seems
like a desirable thing to do sometimes. Does
anyone know if these can be relocated, i.e. to
an adjacent roof surface?</div>
<div style="font-size:12.7272720336914px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:12.7272720336914px">On my
own home I had a vent to deal with. I broke
out my saws-all, split the lead like a banana
and peeled it back, cut the pipe at an angle,
and folded the lead back into the pipe after
applying sealant between the lead and pipe.
There is a 1" gap between the rim of the pipe
and the back of the module. My theory on this
working safely is that, a) there will be far
less rainwater falling in and around this pipe
with a module over it, and b) it is about 24"
from the roof ridge and there is a module over
it so there will be very little water sheeting
down from above the vent. Code
notwithstanding, I felt this was a solid
method on my own home, and I have inspected it
after 6 months of Florida downpours and found
no issues.</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
<div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="margin:0px 0px 8px">
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span>Jason
Szumlanski</span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span></span></span></p>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Fafco
Solar</div>
<br>
</div>
<img moz-do-not-send="true" height="1" width="1" src="cid:"></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at
6:38 AM, Bill Loesch <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:solar1online@charter.net" target="_blank">solar1online@charter.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
Bruce, August, et al,<br>
<br>
This is but one more example of
confusing terminology. A plumbing vent
is not an exhaust vent!<br>
<br>
A plumbing vent (what August calls a
cold vent) is provided to allow the
sanitary drain traps (and perhaps more)
to operate properly. Without the
properly functioning traps you would
have sewer gas smell and sewer gas from
the plumbing fixtures. This was
commonplace when indoor plumbing was
introduced to early adopters.<br>
<br>
An exhaust vent is another animal
entirely. An exhaust vent carries the
combustion products to a suitable
exterior location for dilution with
ambient air. With the advent of power
vented combustion appliances, a direct
vent (one that takes in combustion air
from the outside and naturally exhausts
combustion products to the outside) is
IMHO the only responsible way to install
any power vented appliance in a freezing
climate. (Power vented appliances come
in both condensing and non-condensing
flavors-they can penetrate the side wall
or the roof). Originally, two separate
pipes (with two independent properly
separated penetrations) was used. That
technique is still often used today.
More recently concentric vents have been
introduced both for condensing and
non-condensing applications. A
concentric vent can simplify some
installations by putting the exhaust
pipe inside a larger air intake pipe
allowing for one, albeit larger,
penetration. As you might imagine if the
exhaust flow is
hindered/diverted/redirected by an
inappropriately located solar module
combustion gasses will be re-ingested
into the intake air. Not good for
equipment performance. My understanding
is the power vented <u>appliance
manufacturer</u> dictates what kind of
separation/clearances are needed with
their product. My guess is you find they
want at least a foot of separation
between the top of the " inverted cone"
and the module. Probably not what you
had in mind for an aesthetically
pleasing installation.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps,<br>
<pre cols="72">Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:314%20631%201094" value="+13146311094" target="_blank">314 631 1094</a></pre>
<div>
<div> On 23-Sep-14 6:54 PM, August
Goers wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre><div><div>Bruce and All,
Sorry, I hit send before I had a chance to complete my thoughts. What I
meant to say was that I've found AHJs often allow us to cover cold
plumbing vents but I've never tried or had any luck with covering hot
vents including condensing boiler PVC vents. Once again, if in doubt you
could see what the plan checker or inspector thinks.
Best,
August
-----Original Message-----
From: August Goers [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">mailto:august@luminalt.com</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:15 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: RE: [RE-wrenches] Modules over vents
Bruce,
I'll send you the CA plumbing code vent section offlist (attachment too
large for this list). The way I read the code is that you technically
can't cover any type of plumbing or hot vent. However, and I've run into
little resistance from AHJs in the Bay Area by covering these. You might
want to check in with your plan checker.
Best,
August
Luminalt
-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On
Behalf Of Bruce Leininger
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:49 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Modules over vents
Hi all. We're designing a system on a roof that is literally infested
with plumbing, exhaust and combustion vents. The combustion vents are PVC
and none of the vents are more than 1.5' above the roof.
A racking company says that we can cover them with modules, since the
modules will be at least 4' above the roof. They have not yet provided
any building code references to say that this is ok. Do any of you know
if the building code allows this?
Thanks.
Bruce</div></div></pre>
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