<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The method by which inverters are able
to control AC coupled power flow is the same as used throughout the grid.
The essence of it is based on a characteristic of rotating generating
machines, (generators whether motor driven, hydro driven or other). This
characteristic is that generators slow down when they are overloaded and
speed up when they are under loaded.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Here's a link to an interesting BBC
video about grid management which shows this frequency effect on a GW grid
scale.</font>
<br>
<br><a href=http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatimebritain.shtml><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>http://www.bbc.co.uk/britainfromabove/stories/people/teatimebritain.shtml</u></font></a>
<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif">This happens at small scale too and an
inverter can be made to automatically lower its output power when the AC
frequency increases. Victron and SMA were the first to use this to
achieve AC controlled AC coupled charging and it will also work with generators,
although due to the widely varying power/frequency characteristics of generators
setting it up can be very challenging. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I was not aware that there were older
SI's which allowed a generator connect function, as although possible if
things are set up appropriately, it will not work with every type of generator.
Perhaps they stopped allowing it due to setup frustrations.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Here's a very good paper from Victron
Energy about the interaction of generators and inverters. It has
test results on efficiency, fuel consumption, output distortion, power/frequency
characteristics, AC coupling, etc.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">On our part at Schneider, the XW does
not have this frequency controlled AC coupled function but the new XW+
does have it, although we will not support it for use with generators due
to the wide variations in generator frequency/power behavior. In
the future things may change.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">JARMO<br>
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Jarmo Venalainen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
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<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Jay Peltz <jay@asis.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>,
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">09/19/2014 06:35 AM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island sending
power to the generator??</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>There is a setting in some older SI that allows for generator
back feed, no idea why. It's not in the newest version that I can find
(euro).</font>
<br><font size=3>I had to fix a system ( not mine) and once that setting
was fixed no more genny issues. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>But overall I believe this inverter has a totally different
way it handles the generator vs other inverters, ( it has to) so</font>
<br><font size=3>I'm not sure I agree with the email from Schneider. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Jay</font>
<br><font size=3>Peltz power</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
Sent from my iPhone</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Tump <</font><a href=mailto:tump@swnl.net><font size=3 color=blue><u>tump@swnl.net</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3>I too must agree with Kevin, SMA & SI is the kind!
(although I have had a few fail) SMA IS the ONLY company that will expedite
new inverter AND compensate monetarily, not just talk but they DO. Yeah
its a bit&H when the installs are on islands cause their heavy but
quality IS there, support IS there and their Tech support does acknowledge
that the manual is complicated and there are places that exist in the manual
that don't exist in the inverter but they are very patient, (uncomplaining,
tolerant, resigned, stoical;calm, composed, even-tempered, imperturbable,
unexcitable, accommodating,understanding, indulgent; </font><font size=2>informal
</font><font size=3>unflappable, cool.)and the product is well worth the
additional up front costs! ...... No I don't work for SMA! </font>
<br><font size=3>On Sep 18, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Our firm has installed many Sunny
Island hybrid gen cycle charge systems. In my experience they are hands
down the most reliable inverter system out there for this application.
Many sites that have been working perfectly with 100% uptime over several
years. Most sites we visit once a year to check and there are no issues
at all.</font>
<br><font size=3> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">There are many small tricks on
the install side to get to reliability like that. While the menus with
the 8 characters and all manner of acronyms can be daunting, once it's
configured there's generally no changes needed. Tying in the webbox option
makes it a lot friendlier to program and monitor.</font>
<br><font size=3> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">My direct experience does not
match with the last paragraph comments. The only problematic installs we
have worked on were installed by others and not installed well.</font>
<br><font size=3> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Kevin Pegg <br>
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. <br>
37471 Hwy 16 E <br>
Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 <br>
250-846-9888 <u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.energyalternatives.ca/ target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca</u></font></a>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<b><br>
From:</b> RE-wrenches [</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>William Miller<b><br>
Sent:</b> September 17, 2014 10:23 PM<b><br>
To:</b> RE-wrenches<b><br>
Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island sending power to the generator??<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">Colleagues:</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">I was invited to troubleshoot a Sunny Island
system. What I found is a Sunny Island mini-grid system behaving
oddly. The generator, when started with the SI, would run for a few
minutes and then shut down. Further investigation revealed that the
SIs were indicating that the inverters were sending lots of power back
to the generator, even with the Sunny Boy turned off. </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">I don’t know if this was actually the case,
nor can I grasp how this could happen. The system was programmed
as a PV/Gen only system. Fortunately I reached an off-grid tech at
SMA and we were able to resolve the issue. I am not sure what we
did but I suspect that simply rebooting the Sunny Islands was the cure.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">I post this in case any of you experience
this problem and could benefit from my experience. Also, I want to
understand this better. Could it be true that the inverters could
send power to the generator? I know the circuitry is there to sell
to AC2, which is how this system would work as a true grid-interactive
system, but how did it get triggered? Was it battery-selling to the
generator? I welcome any comments.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">What I am starting to think is that the Sunny
Island system, like any feature rich system, is complicated and has the
potential to be less reliable than simpler systems. On the plus side
I could also think of these systems as job security for the knowledgeable
technician.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">Sincerely,</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">William</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial"> </font>
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