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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Yeah, CAN bus is used (was designed mainly) for automobiles and I
bet EVs<br>
had something to do with Lion battery BOS's being CAN.<br>
<br>
We actually have a modbus (RS232) to CAN converter that could be
used for this<br>
I think.<br>
<br>
That kind of stuff isn't all that hard to do and you may find
generic devices to do this<br>
conversion, but I have not looked into it.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/18/2014 12:08 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:FFDD44F6-F607-4648-908B-889CAA64BB6E@starlightsolar.com"
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boB,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMPORTANT: If you ever plan to make a Li-ion control I/O, do
it with CAN bus. The whole industry is there. Our GBS product
has CAN bus on the CPU to control a variety of chargers now. I
hope inverter and CC manufacturers see this great potential. It
would be easy for my CPU to tell the Classic (or an
inverter/charger) when and how much to charge. It would be a
real problem solver for me.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Larry<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:FFDD44F6-F607-4648-908B-889CAA64BB6E@starlightsolar.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Sep 18, 2014, at 12:52 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>
wrote:</div>
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Oh, OK then. I thought that somebody had noticed a
voltage drop when surging.<br>
<br>
When people ask me if they can use LFP or other
Lithium chemistry batteries, I tell them yes because<br>
when they buy a LFP battery system, (or one of their
Lithium Ion relatives) it has all the protection<br>
and balancing built into it. It's simple to use with
an off the shelf charge controller.<br>
<br>
We were asked to add an input so that the LFP BMS
could tell the CC when to stop charging.<br>
That was a special case and I don't remember who's
system that was. Normally, I see what you just<br>
mentioned I think where it charges up to a voltage
(Absorb) and then immediately goes to Float<br>
which would be some very low voltage, enough to be
called "off". Couldn't be easier.<br>
<br>
Now we're just talking price compared to a tried and
true LA battery ?<br>
<br>
Some may remember Boeing's little problem recently
though and that may turn them off.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/18/2014 11:33 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:BB74B4B2-FECE-449A-AAC4-B65AAE02BC7B@starlightsolar.com"
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Truth is there is likely more than enough capacity in
the LFP battery the customer has but the manufacturer
built a limit into the “box". The limit of our battery
is set to 10C for 30 seconds. WAY more than any
inverter can draw with even a small bank.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Larry<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 18, 2014, at 12:26 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>
wrote:</div>
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Yes, well of course there are these details.<br>
If the LFP surge is a limitation, but not
its amount of overall<br>
energy storage, then you may have to add a
very large amount of LFP storage to overcome
that which<br>
could be overkill and cost a lot of extra $.<br>
<br>
It's all a compromise.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/18/2014 10:55 AM, Starlight Solar Power
Systems wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:13511563-8B62-4F9B-B9CB-3C305296AF37@starlightsolar.com"
type="cite">
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boB,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When charging a LFP battery, the
charge terminates when absorb voltage is
reached unless you have an enormous
charger in which case you will need to
terminate based on AH returned. You would
also need to isolate the LA battery to
finish charging it. Plus, LA needs higher
voltages than LFP. I don’t think would
solve Williams problem. A better solution
would be another LI-ion bank that is not
current limited. Just a 50AH bank could
provide an additional 500amps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Larry</div>
<div> <br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 18, 2014, at 11:09 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>
wrote:</div>
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One thing that could possibly be
done is to have a smaller lead
acid battery in parallel with the
LiFePo bank<br>
so the LiFePo contains most of the
"energy" storage, but the LA can
supply the surges and low
impedance<br>
source voltage.<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/18/2014 8:53 AM, Starlight
Solar Power Systems wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:2FFB003A-CA9B-4996-B690-53023C53366B@starlightsolar.com"
type="cite">
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William,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is one reason I choose
to avoid the "black box"
approach to Li-ion batteries for
our customers. There are several
companies offering enclosed
battery/controls like the OES.
Their approach does not match
well to the off-grid and mobile
markets that I serve. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since most LFP batteries can
handle 10C for up to 30 seconds
(Winston LFP can surge to 20C!)
and 2C-3C continuous discharge,
it makes sense to me to design a
protection system that can't
utilize that capability. Our
LFMP battery has an external CPU
that I can program. We also use
external high current relays for
the protective circuits so the
full load of the inverter can be
put to use.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With a LFP battery bank of 48
volts and 400AH, somewhat small
for off grid, the battery can
operate continuously at 1200
amps or about 60kW output and
surge to 4000 amps/600kW. This
obviously is way beyond the
demand capability of the
inverter(s). A quick look at the
SI6048 data sheet shows maximum
AC current is 11kW for 3
seconds.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am glad you noticed the
extremely low voltage sag under
load. This feature means lower
current which should translate
to longer life for inverters. It
also means starting loads that
you can’t with a similar sized
lead acid battery. A 1C load
typically has only 0.2 volt sag.
For 48 volt systems, this means
maintaining 51.2 volts
throughout the full battery use.
In fact, a 1C load will still
only have 0.2 volt drop until
about 90% discharged. Simply
amazing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Larry Crutcher</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 17, 2014, at 10:15
PM, William Miller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Larry:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font
face="Arial,
sans-serif"><font
color="#1f497d">…</font><font
color="#1f497d"
size="3">...</font></font><span
style="color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-family: Arial,
sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt;">The
internal battery
management system
will allow them to
disconnect under
surge loads, just
when you need your
batteries to stay
connected. I will
be conversing with
the manufacturer to
learn more about
them.</span></p>
<div><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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