<div dir="ltr">Hey Mac, <div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal">
<font color="#999999">1. What is a (currently listed) rapid shutdown system that will accommodate 8 strings? I know I can do this with <span class="" tabindex="0"><span class="">Midnite</span></span> combiners but as I understand these aren't listed yet.</font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Contacting combiners from several mfgs or Midnite combiners would work. Everything in PV systems pretty much has to be listed per 690.4(B), and this listing requirement is repeated - perhaps excessively throughout 690. There is no single Standard to list rapid shutdown equipment to - the intent of the listing requirement in 690.12(5) is more general, as in a combiner box that is listed to 1741 and contains manufacturer assembled components rated for the application (i.e. current and voltage). The combiner box could also be listed to 1699B for arc-fault protection. But it cannot be listed to XXXX for rapid shutdown because that listing doesn't exist.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Note that depending on the type of inverter in the system, additional isolating means at the charge controller and/or inverter may be required due to internal capacitance on the dc input side of the equipment. Talk to the equipment mfgs to verify this.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999"><br></font></p></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999">2. On a remote pole mount, does rapid shutdown apply? If the intent is to isolate a safe zone around an array for fire fighting, it seems as though a standard pole mounted DC disconnect can cover this concern.</font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">690.12 is for "Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings". Depending on where the PV system circuits are routed (inv/cc/batteries inside?) they may be subject to these requirements, but a grid-direct system, with the inverter at the pole, would meet shutdown requirements through it's ac disconnect/backfed breaker at the service. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999">3. I estimate on a typical hybrid installation, rapid shutdown will cost at least $3000 to implement. This includes remote shunt trip battery breakers, contactors on PV side of charge controller and roof combiners, and running control cable from remote disconnect to all locations. As of now, this would also require me to modify listed interconnection equipment. Is this what others are finding?</font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">690.71(H) already requires a disconnect at batteries if the cables are more than 5 feet long, at which length rapid shutdown would be required as well. So if it's any consolation you killing 2 birds with 1 remotely activate-able switch! Plus roof-mounted combiners need a disconnect within 6 feet (690.15(C)), so that's another two-fer too.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">How do you mean "modify listed interconnection equipment"?</p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999"><br></font></p></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999">4. AC coupling with microinverters may be the easiest way to comply with most of these requirements. However, this doesn't seem like a great alternative to the standard charge controller installation in an off-grid system.<u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999"><u></u> </font><u></u></p></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for your thoughts</p>
</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Brian Mehalic <br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59<div><br></div><div><div>PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor<div>
Solar Energy International<br><a href="http://www.solarenergy.org" target="_blank">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Mac Lewis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Will,<div><br></div><div>Yes I'm sure AHJ's will be all over the place for a while here in Colorado. To clarify, is this a manual disconnect in the attic? If so, that is really missing the whole idea of a rapid shutdown.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Will White <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:William.White@rgsenergy.com" target="_blank">William.White@rgsenergy.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Our experience in MA with rapid shutdown unfortunately varies with AHJ. Some are letting us put an Eaton NEMA 4 disconnect on the roof next to the array. Some are letting
us put a disconnect in an accessible attic within 5’ of the penetration. Some are requiring the Midnight Birdhouse remote switch which is expensive.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Rapid shutdown doesn’t apply to pole or ground mounts.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hope this helps.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Will<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="margin-left:4.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="1309" valign="top" style="width:981.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">Will White</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">Operations Manager - New England
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">RGS Energy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="1309" valign="top" style="width:981.75pt;padding:5.25pt 0in 3.0pt 0in">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="1309" valign="top" style="width:981.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">64 Main St.
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#b9b9b9">|</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">Montpelier, VT 05602<br>
tel <a href="tel:802.223.7804" value="+18022237804" target="_blank">802.223.7804</a> </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#b9b9b9">|</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999"> mobile <a href="tel:802.234.3167" value="+18022343167" target="_blank">802.234.3167</a>
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#b9b9b9">|</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999"> fax <a href="tel:802.223.8980" value="+18022238980" target="_blank">802.223.8980</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="1309" valign="top" style="width:981.75pt;padding:3.75pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#fcb033"><a href="http://www.rgsenergy.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#fcb033;text-decoration:none">RGSEnergy.com</span></a>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#fcb033">|
<a href="mailto:william.white@rgsenergy.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#fcb033;text-decoration:none">william.white@rgsenergy.com</span></a>
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="1309" valign="top" style="width:981.75pt;padding:6.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#8a8a8a">Confidentiality Note:
</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#8a8a8a">This e-mail message may contain confidential or legally privileged information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure,
dissemination, distribution, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information herein is prohibited. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, or contain viruses. Anyone who communicates
with us by e-mail is deemed to have accepted these risks. RGS Energy is not responsible for errors or omissions in this message and denies any responsibility for any damage arising from the use of e-mail. Any opinion and other statement contained in this message
and any attachment are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.<br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mac Lewis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 27, 2014 8:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Rapid shutdown questions<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello wrenches,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am still trying to wrap my head around how to comply with rapid shutdown in off-grid and hybrid situations. I've got a few questions that maybe you can help with.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. What is a (currently listed) rapid shutdown system that will accommodate 8 strings? I know I can do this with Midnite combiners but as I understand these aren't listed yet.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. On a remote pole mount, does rapid shutdown apply? If the intent is to isolate a safe zone around an array for fire fighting, it seems as though a standard pole mounted DC disconnect can cover this concern.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. I estimate on a typical hybrid installation, rapid shutdown will cost at least $3000 to implement. This includes remote shunt trip battery breakers, contactors on PV side of charge controller and roof combiners, and running control
cable from remote disconnect to all locations. As of now, this would also require me to modify listed interconnection equipment. Is this what others are finding?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. AC coupling with microinverters may be the easiest way to comply with most of these requirements. However, this doesn't seem like a great alternative to the standard charge controller installation in an off-grid system.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for your thoughts<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Mac Lewis<b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ff9900"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><span style="color:#305a78">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><b><span style="color:#686868">-Sócrates</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ff9900"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>
Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left">
<font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p>
</font></b></span>
</font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>