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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Midnite makes several good things for
this situation, including their E Panel for the Radian, which I'm
sure is better than Outback's version.<br>
They also have low cost AC bypass switch assemblies, and I've
recently used their PV Combiner boxes for AC distribution with AC
rated DIN rail mountable breakers.<br>
I wish they made an indoor version though with more KOs.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 8/9/2014 12:24 PM, William Miller wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Scot:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
won’t comment on the battery wiring sizing here. What I
will say is that the Radian distribution panels are poorly
designed. I have numerous complaints and if you want detail
I can dig up my report to Outback. Short answer is I
suggest anyone do the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do
not order a prewired system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Remove
all AC distribution components from the Outback Radian power
panel and relocate them to two outboard off-the-shelf
breaker panels. One will be Gen fed and one will be
Inverter fed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Create
your own interlock to provide for generator bypass. This
can use an off-the-shelf breaker interlock but you can do
better with a small aluminum plate, jig saw and drill
press. I can provide more insight on this as well. Will
build a lot of custom interlocks and we are very pleased
with the results.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">William
Miller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.07020701.00070901@solarray.com"
alt="Gradient Cap_mini" height="28" width="64"><br>
Lic 773985<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.millersolar.com/">millersolar.com</a><br>
805-438-5600<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:scot.arey@solarcentex.com">scot.arey@solarcentex.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Changing from 2 battery
cable setup to single cable for Outback?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Greetings,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">My
team is installing a Outback Radian 8048 to replace an
older dual Xantrex/Trace 5048 inverter setup where one
failed either due to lightning or old age. We did not
install the original system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Battery
setup is 48V bank with Rolls 6CS21P Series 5000
batteries (to be quite honest, largest I've ever seen
- 271 lbs per battery, 683AH, 1740CCA). 4 parallel
strings of 4 batteries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
cable from the battery bank to the inverter is two 4/0
RHH cables. Two for the positive cables and two for
the negative cables. I keep asking the original
designer why he used two cables (4 total) and I never
quite get the same, straight answer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Now
enter the new Radian inverter and its load center.
While there is a positive load plate to bolt the
positive cables onto, there really is not lots of
space through the load center to maneuver the cables.
Even less for the single negative bus bar connection.
The load center has dual 175A circuit breakers built
in (one for each of the 4KW inverters that makes up
the 8048)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So
my question(s) is (are): can I go from a pair of 4/0
cables to a single 2/0 RHH cable to enter the load
center and carry the battery load? Why would a
designer use dual cables? How does one calculate the
battery short circuit current in order to even
determine cable ampacity requirements? Or for that
matter, to determine if the load center 175A dual
circuit breakers are of sufficient size to negate the
need for additional OCPD IAW 694.70C?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
want to make sure I'm doing this right and whenever
I'm upgrading a component, I try to remember that
other components likely need adjust/upgrading…thanks
all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Howard
"Scot" Arey<br>
<br>
Solar CenTex<br>
254-300-1228<br>
<br>
"Use the Texas Sun!"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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