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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">A 60 amp continuously rated AC breaker
is what is actually being used in the UL listed E Panel from
Midnite. <br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 7/3/2014 9:01 PM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mac,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Be
careful with breaker sizing here. The transfer switch in the
SMA SI5048 is only rated for 56A at 120 VAC. From the SI
manual:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“The
maximum input current allowed on the Sunny Island is 56 A.
Higher input currents must not be connected to the Sunny
Island.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To
protect that switch properly, you would need to use a 50A
breaker (unless you can find a 55A breaker that fits in your
AC panel). Since most common AC breakers are only rated for
80% duty, you would need to limit that 50A breaker to a
continuous 40A load. That’s more than the max output current
of the Fronius 10.0-1, although it’s debatable that the
output of a PV inverter is “continuous”. It certainly could
be in some situations, especially with a tracker mount,
although even with a fixed array, you could see max rated
output for at least a couple of hours per day.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
agree with the suggestion of putting part of the PV array on
a 5kW Sunny Boy, or adding a second Sunny Island and using
two Sunny Boy 5000’s. Using two Islands would eliminate the
need for a transformer, and allow for full array power
during grid outages.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brian
Teitelbaum </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">AEE
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mac Lewis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 03, 2014 9:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island retrofit</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wrenches,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jerry, I think you are correct, sma
gear all around would be best. This will be my
recommendation but I am sensitive to this substantial
cost.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dave, if I add the second Sunny Island,
I don't think I will be throttled back because the
transfer relays are rated for 60A. This should pass the
full current of the output of the Fronius, which is 41.7A.
My concern is more during backup mode, if the Sunny
Islands could "trick" the Fronius into staying on line. I
would add either load dump relay control or an AC
interrupt relay to knock the Fronius off-line if the
batteries were full, in addition to the frequency shift
control that the Sunny Island offers.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the input, I'll shoot for
all SMA gear.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Dave
Click <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu" target="_blank">daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mac, that Island interconnects with a
max 70A 1P breaker (6.7kW continuous), so unless they
have a constant critical load draw or the Fronius is
massively oversized, you probably don't want to AC
couple the Fronius. The 5048 is also able to output a
continuous 5000W only when it's cooler than 77F and it
derates above that (4500W at 95F, for example). I don't
believe its surge ratings apply to the AC2 output back
into the utility but they probably wouldn't be enough,
anyway. I think that whenever the Fronius output reached
about 6000W, the SI would shift its frequency to switch
the Fronius off. Cheapest may be along the lines of your
first option-- not sure what the PV stringing is like
but maybe you could move a string or two off the Fronius
and put it onto a new Sunny Boy with an autoformer.
Since I imagine this system doesn't have PV WIRE on the
module leads or home runs, officially I'd recommend a
classic Sunny Boy. Then leave the Fronius as-is. <br>
<br>
Unless of course the customer thought they were buying a
system with the full 10kW supplying critical loads when
the utility is down... then the original contractor is
stuck with buying the second SI they should have
installed in the first place.<br>
<br>
DKC</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2014/7/3, 10:46, Mac Lewis
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello wrenches, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wanted to run this
scenario by the forum. I have spoken with SMA
about this, but want some other opinions.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We were recently contracted
by a fellow solar company to do some warranty
work for them out of town on a Sunny Island
system that they had installed about 5 years
ago. It was VERY poorly implemented
originally and was never installed as SMA
intended. In fact, during a small power
outage, the only loads that never came back on
after the utility was back on line were the
loads in the critical load panel. Oops. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyway, our job is to get
it working properly for the least amount of
cost possible. They have a Fronius IG Plus
10.0 fed into a 400A service panel. The Sunny
Island 5048 AC Input also comes off of this
panel and feeding a 120V only critical load
panel. Please note that there is no solar fed
into the AC output side of the Sunny Island,
because there is not 120/240 available and
thus there is no possible way for this system
to utilize the solar while the grid is not
present.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I see two options (but
there may be more): pull out Fronius, put in
Sunny Boy inverters and an autoformer, wire
properly. Another option is to add second
Sunny Island and try to AC couple the Fronius
with the two Sunny Islands. The second option
is less expensive overall, but I'm hesitant to
rely on AC coupling with the Fronius.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'd appreciate any thoughts
on this.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Mac Lewis<b><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></b></p>
<p><span style="color:#305a78">"Yo solo sé que
no sé nada." </span><b><span
style="color:#686868">-Sócrates</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Mac Lewis<b><span
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<p><span style="color:#305a78">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><b><span
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