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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:black'>What has been everybody’s experience with Full River Batteries?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:black'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roy Butler<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 02, 2014 3:12 PM<br><b>To:</b> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum and Pumps<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sweet....thanks for that info, I stand corrected!<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Roy Butler<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>607-324-9747 <a href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.smallwindconference.com">www.smallwindconference.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/2/2014 2:55 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Roy, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The FullRiver DC400-6 AGM battery can issue 2000 amps for 5 seconds so he should be fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Larry<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 2, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Roy Butler <<a href="mailto:roy@four-winds-energy.com">roy@four-winds-energy.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I haven't seen anyone mention the battery bank. If I understand correctly, there's a single string of sealed<br>L16 batteries on this inverter. I have my doubts as to whether or not that bank can provide the high current<br>the inverter needs to start this load.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Roy Butler<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>607-324-9747 <a href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com/">www.four-winds-energy.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.smallwindconference.com/">www.smallwindconference.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/2/2014 2:10 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>To further qualify my statements, the inverter will start the pump without issue, but I should echo the warnings by others that if there are other loads present, especially other motor loads that could start </span><span style='font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>concurrently, you may experience issues. As long as your customer understands the limitations and possibilities, you may be just fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session"><div><div style='margin-bottom:6.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Jason Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Fafco Solar</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://ws-stats.appspot.com/ga/pixel.png?yes__count=true%20&e=legacy_impression"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com" target="_blank">jason@fafcosolar.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>For what it's worth, I've run a single speed 1.5HP pool pump with a MS4448PAE in a mobile application on a 38.4kWh battery bank (sixteen Rolls S-530's). I have also run a 2.5HP Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump at full RPM, but that startup current is likely less than you well pump.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I'm going to guess your 3/4HP well pump will be a breeze to start with this inverter.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style='margin-bottom:6.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Jason Szumlanski <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Fafco Solar</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"'></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Drake,<br>As a normal CYA, I'll always gently let a customer know that this (or any) particular combination of inverter and load sometimes proves incompatible, just in case the unexpected happens. (We once had a MS4448 that would not reliably start and run a condensing boiler; a switch to a different boiler resolved the issue.)<br><br>Having said that note of caution, I wouldn't give it any concern. 3/4 HP and 1 HP well pumps have never been an issue; I would expect 1.5 HP to be easy to run. At 2 HP I'd be asking these questions here. <br><br>You might check that it's a 3-wire, capacitor-start motor, but nowadays nearly all are. Two-wire pumps (with no control box) can add 50% to the surge.<br><br>The Magnum has a fairly poor voltage regulation response. Sometimes the AC voltage can drop to ~80 VAC momentarily. So you might also caution your customer that the lights may flicker when the pump starts. In our home we know whenever our Kenmore fridge turns on.<br><br>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.<br><b><a href="tel:505%20780-2738" target="_blank">505 780-2738</a> cell</b></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/2/2014 8:17 AM, Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hello Wrenches,<br><br>We are hoping to use a Magnum PAE 4448 to back up a household that includes a 3/4 HP deep well pump. There is about 120 feet of vertical rise and about 1000 feet of horizontal distance. <br><br>I have been told that there is a correlation between the locked rotor current of a pump and the predictable ability of a specified inverter to power that pump. <br><br>The plumber who installed the pump left no paperwork and retained no records of what pump he put in the hole last year. He could only say it was a 3/4 HP pump. We are therefore unable to obtain the manufacturer's nameplate specifications.<br><br>The Magnum PAE 4448 has a 1 mS surge of 70 A (at 240 V) and a 100 MS surge of 40 A. According to the NEC Table 430.251(A), a 3/4 HP motor has a locked rotor current of 41.4 amps at 230 V. <br><br>This inverter can surge at 35.4 A for 5 seconds. The specified battery bank will be 8 Full River L-16 AGMs. Can anyone say if: <o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Is there enough information to know if this setup will handle the pump, and if so, will it? <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>How can an inverter's ability to power a motor or pump be calculated by knowing its locked rotor current? Which surge periods should be compared to the locked rotor current? <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Does the surge current need to equal locked rotor. How long must the inverter meet its required maximum surge? <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>From experience with Magnums and pumps, does this seem like a good combination? <o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br>Thank you,<br><br>Drake <br><br>Drake Chamberlin<br><i>Athens Electric LLC<br>OH License 44810<br>CO License 3773<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV <br><a href="tel:740-448-7328" target="_blank">740-448-7328</a><br></i><a href="http://athens-electric.com/" target="_blank">http://athens-electric.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#ACA899' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7776 - Release Date: 07/01/14<o:p></o:p></p></div><hr noshade="noshade" size="1"><a></a><p class=""avgcert"" align="left" color="#000000">No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href='http://www.avg.com'>www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7776 - Release Date: 07/01/14</p></body></html>