<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Thanks to Nick for catching a misstatement in my email, corrected
below in <b>bold</b>. I was trying to make a general statement out
of his specific situation.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014/6/26, 10:20, Dave Click wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:53AC2C2E.2040100@fsec.ucf.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">NEC says 10' from the
array, defined as "</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
A mechanically integrated assembly of modules or panels with a
support structure and foundation, tracker, and other components,
as required, to form a direct-current power-producing unit.
<title>70HB14_CH00_FM_pi_xii.pdf</title>
" I take this to mean that the "array" definition includes
support structure, so you could go 10' from the bottom of the
pole? <br>
<br>
But that doesn't matter, as rapid shutdown requirements only
apply to PV systems <b>[conductors]</b> "on or in" buildings;
it only applies to a ground-mounted system if you bring the dc
all the way into <b>or onto</b><b> </b>a building (<b>if you
are >10' from the array or >5' within the structure</b>).
So, Rapid Shutdown doesn't apply at all to your scenario where
only the ac wiring from a pole mount enters the building.<br>
<br>
DKC<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014/6/25, 12:00, Jesse Dahl
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJLdFVc10ohBXE949za=Mvs9cRsES4vL+pFF6VQWB5JHc7no3A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Re-reading this rapid shutdown convo.
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Does 10' from the array mean from the modules or the
"mount"? What if the array is on a pole, the pole is 15'
tall and the inverter is mounted at the base of the pole?
Since the array (modules) is 15' from the inverter is rapid
shutdown required? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Again, since the title of 690.12 is "On Buildings" is it
required for pole mounts where only AC enters the building?
Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jesse </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Dan
Fink <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:danbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank">danbob88@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Aaron, boB, Wrenches;
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think Aaron brings up a good point, and it's
certainly confusing to me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The boldface type heading of 690.12 is "Rapid
Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The body of the 690.12 text begins with "PV
system *circuits* installed on or in buildings
shall....."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>690.2 defines "Photovoltaic source circuit" as
"Circuits between modules and from modules to the
common connection point(s) of the DC system" </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and "Photovoltaic output circuit" as "Circuit
conductors between the PV source circuit(s) and the
inverter or DC utilization equipment."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"PV system" from the heading of 690.12 is not
defined in 690.2, other than that the definition of
"Photovoltaic system voltage" specifically includes
both PV output and source circuits.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To me the confusing part of 690.12 is "PV Systems
on Buildings" is that "system" is not defined, and
tends to imply rooftop arrays. But "PV system
circuits installed on or in buildings shall....." is
pretty clear. I interpret it to mean anything DC and
PV stuck to the side of building like conduit, etc,
or running inside....which means it applies to
ground-mount arrays too if they terminate outside or
inside the building.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I'm seeing as the easy work-around for us
off-grid folk is the old "power shed" idea
containing battery bank, balance of system, inverter
etc....just build it within 10 feet of the PV array
and you're fine.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any thoughts?</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>Dan Fink,<br>
Executive Director;<br>
Otherpower<br>
Buckville Energy Consulting<br>
Buckville Publications LLC<br>
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education
Providers<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:970.672.4342"
value="+19706724342" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 3:30
PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com" target="_blank">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com" target="_blank">boB@midnitesolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Bill Brooks should probably respond to this also,
but reading the NEC, it looks like if the wires<br>
do not go inside the building to run more than 5
feet (as the crow flies), the the rapid disconnect<br>
does not apply. OR, less than 10 feet from the
array IF the PV is mounted on that building.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
boB</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/18/2014 1:34 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> The rapid shutdown
language is so confusing. When looking at the
rapid shutdown language, does PV systems "on"
a building refer to only situations where the
array is on a building; or does it include DC
conductors as well. For example, if the DC
conductors from a pole mounted array run up
the side of a building before punching in to
the inverter, does this require rapid
shutdown? Is this PV system considered "on" a
building?<br>
<br>
Aaron<br>
<br>
Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
Owner/Solar Specialist<br>
Renewable Energy Outfitters<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:719-221-5249" value="+17192215249"
target="_blank">719-221-5249</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970-596-3744" value="+19705963744"
target="_blank">970-596-3744</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.reosolar.com"
target="_blank">www.reosolar.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com"
target="_blank">reosolar@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>