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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Bob,<br>
We had a case in February in which an AHJ insisted that we vent a
Midnite cabinet with a dozen 2V 9150T batteries. We fought it all
the way to the state Technical Advisory Committee, the top arbiter
of Code issues. We fought to a draw: we finally agreed to put in
the vent to get our final passed, and the committee permanently
tabled the issue so there is no precedent set. To continue to
fight this would have required bringing in professional engineers,
as some of the committee members were reluctant to make their own
decisions about the issue and wanted to pass the buck. As I
recall, the Zephyr Power Vent was ultimately never hooked up to
the Classic controller's auxiliary, as the necessary work was
handled by the GC (rather than by us) at a quite remote location.
The challenge to the AHJ was a pain in the butt, although we were
paid by the clients for the effort, as they agreed with the
absurdity of the inspector's demand.<br>
<br>
I have attached a few documents I gathered and prepared in this
case. You do not need to vent AGMs if the larger space in which
the battery enclosure is located has a typical and normal amount
of natural air circulation and convective air exchange. Also, you
can't duplicate what Kevin describes below with a vented enclosure
- Kevin's approach requires a "sealed and vented battery
enclosure". By design, your enclosure is unsealed.<br>
<br>
Putting in vents "for the next guy" also makes no sense. If you
install 8 flooded L16s on two shelves in a Midnite MNBE-Cl16
enclosure, you won't be able to routinely add water to the cells.
The cabinet was designed and built for VRLA batteries. So any
venting you install now would have to be redone to fit a cabinet
built for flooded batteries with top access.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive Energy,
Inc.</span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b><br
style="mso-special-character:line-break">
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On 6/21/2014 1:30 PM, Bob Clark wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:858FB4D9-0DDF-4D0E-BC22-D38A93A32DC4@solar-wind.us"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
RE-Wrenches:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2014 NEC 480.9 (A) has two informational notes that seem to
point to the possibility of not having to vent AGMs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is what I was going to do with 8 Concorde
SunXtender Batteries, 6V, 405Ah, L16, PVX-4050HT:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Put them in a Midnite Solar, MNBE-CL16 Battery Enclosure
(which is not a sealed box) in a “battery closet."</div>
<div>2. Vent the box out of the top of the box and through the
wall of the house with pipes like Kevin Pegg suggests.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do any of you see any problems with this? Venting
unnecessary?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One consideration is the “next guy” who occupies this house
may want flooded batteries, in which case, the vent system would
definitely be necessary.</div>
<div><br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div>Bob Clark</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bclark@solar-wind.us">bclark@solar-wind.us</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 4, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Kevin Pegg <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kpegg@energyalternatives.ca">kpegg@energyalternatives.ca</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div vlink="purple" link="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Hi William, </font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"></span> </div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">In the cold
north here in Canada, this is the most common way we
install batteries - within the heated envelope of a
home or shop, installed in a sealed &
vented battery enclosure. </font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"></span> </div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Hydrogen is
easy to vent as it is lighter than air. We use a
process similar to below. I see a lot of
installations with power vents that are not done
properly - exhaust only but no intake as example.
They can also fail. Or installed in such a way that
outside wind influences could actually reverse the
flow and pressurize the battery box! Air flow needs
to be balanced. </font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"></span> </div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bdbatteries.com/hydrogenventing.php">http://www.bdbatteries.com/hydrogenventing.php</a></font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">To remove the
thermal air currents present in a battery box
venting system, you must create a natural heat sink
between the vent tubes to neutralize the difference
in temperature. This in turn will stagnate the air,
allowing the hydrogen which is lighter than air, to
rise and escape the battery box. Make sure the
smaller tube, the one inside, extends to the bottom
of the box. This will allow "heavier" fresh air to
fall to the floor of the box and retard hydrogen
entry. The intake for the hydrogen is at the top of
the box, the exterior tube in the system. Hydrogen
will travel in the opposite direction through the
larger outer pipe as it is lighter than the air
surrounding it. Several good methods for
constructing this vent system exist, we particularly
like to see 1/2 inch copper pipes inside 1 inch
pipe. Any highly conductive metal pipe will work it
will transfer heat quickly. Galvanized, steel, and
other pipes that spark when rubbed aren't as great.
DO NOT USE THESE IN EARTHQUAKE ZONES. </font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">DO NOT USE PVC
FOR THIS VENT SYSTEM....PVC DOES NOT CONDUCT HEAT
WELL ENOUGH! Copper, aluminum, and other non
sparking conductive metals are great! <br>
</font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><Outlook.bmp></font></span></div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"></span> </div>
<div><span class="210174121-04042014"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"><Outlook.bmp></font></span></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> April 4, 2014 9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Batteries in a
dwelling<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Friends:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I am proposing
installation of vented batteries in a first floor
garage of a dwelling. The dwelling areas are on
the second floor. I am nervous about the
cohabitation of batteries and humans.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I reviewed the
NEC and could not find any prohibition. Do any of
you have any advice on how this is accomplished in
the mot safe manor? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I presume good
ventilation and an otherwise sealed room are
advised. I will propose additional smoke
detectors, locked doors and I will research
hydrogen detectors. A good spill kit and all PPE
will be staged as usual.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thanks in
advance for the forthcoming, always expert advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">William Miller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
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