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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks Phil;<br>
<br>
That's the best resource yet. Actual choices in length of the
ferules, insulated or non insulated, and not afraid to talk about
Class K stranded wire ratings, etc.<br>
Maybe I'll get some sleep tonii-iight......<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/30/2014 1:29 PM, Phil Forest wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6569AB10-CF13-425F-82F5-087C2CBBC8A4@southmountain.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>We use ferrules for fine stranded wire at terminals.
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://Www.ferrulesdirect">Www.ferrulesdirect</a> has it all. <br>
<br>
<div>Phil Forest</div>
<div>South Mountain Company</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Ray Walters <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">NSI has sleeves rated for fine
strand specifically made for this application. They seem to
be around $1 for the 2/0 version<br>
Here's a supplier. <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.westwayelectricsupply.com/fs030-flexible-sleeve-657-i-d.html">http://www.westwayelectricsupply.com/fs030-flexible-sleeve-657-i-d.html</a><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/30/2014 12:25 PM, William Miller wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B011C0A2-DE9C-4ABD-A1E6-0FD1BE37D5DC@millersolar.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Ray:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward
to me of-line an email contact and part number I need to
order for 4/0. <br>
<br>
Miller Solar</div>
<div><br>
On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">What I'm finding in my
research is that most of the manufacturers are just
not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the
use of fine stranded cable is increasing dramatically.<br>
ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine
strand ratings. I have their catalogs in hand. Even
the SMA manual does not mention this issue, I had to
call tech support.<br>
BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators
just using flex cable directly. Meanwhile, I can
share a pic of the one lug I torqued down, and didn't
like, which lead to all this:<br>
Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the
connection at all.<br>
How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into
Heinemann breakers in Trace DC boxes?<br>
<br>
Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that
sell the flex cable, and ask if the connectors are
rated for fine stranding, all you get is that "deer in
the headlights" stare.<br>
I was used to having to figure all this out in the old
days of solar, but now that every electrical supplier
in town is claiming to be a solar expert/ distributor,
I really should be able to just walk in and get the
parts I need for a Code compliant installation. If
you sell the inverter and the cable, you really should
stock the connector.<br>
<br>
On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the
ticket, as confirmed by Schneider. Also they appear
to be 40 times cheaper than pin adapters, and don't
take up extra room in the wiring compartment. Now I
just have to find some TODAY. Ugh...<br>
<br>
And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last
night. <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:007101cf6492$a6a83cc0$f3f8b640$@burt@glbcc.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded
conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required
equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC).
Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use.
Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is necessary to produce a compliant
installation (per 110.3(B)).
-Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors
Hi ray
As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded
wire.
Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and
ends says its UL for fine stranded.
I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters.
(Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with
ferrules)
Jay
Peltz power
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><ray@solarray.com></a> wrote:
Hi All;
In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with
Cobra X flex cable.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated
for flex or fine stranded cable.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on
pigtail adapter. It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over
sized cables into smaller lugs. (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've
found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the
wire, right in the connection:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio">http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio</a>
n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx
I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03">http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03</a>
01.pdf
So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them?
The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail
adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch)
On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles
690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated?
For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html">http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html</a>
I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">breakers with that stiff a wire. I've cracked breaker cases
before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks for your help,
--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
_______________________________________________
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