<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Yeah, #10 wire is pretty cheap, especially when purchased in bulk, as are readily available 100A Square D NEMA 3R load centers and breakers. There isn't a great cost savings in terms of material. Sometimes it's just easier to make a single home run. Every job is different. We do it both ways.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Sometimes there isn't enough space near the meter or existing distribution for both a combiner and fusible disconnect or there are obstructions that make it impractical. There are aesthetic concerns (usually overblown by the homeowner or HOA). </div>
<div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">What we really need is for Square D to start making main distribution equipment with dedicated supply side lugs with OCPD built in. One can dream...</div>
<br><br><div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session"><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="margin:0 0 8px 0"><p style="margin:0"><span><span>Jason</span></span></p><div style="clear:both">
</div></div><img src="https://wisestamp.appspot.com/pixview.gif?p=chrome&v=3.32.0&t=1398865786717&u=d0c775731865b324" width="1" height="1"></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 9:44 AM, jay peltz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com" target="_blank">jay@asis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><div>Hi Jason,</div><div><br></div><div>Always good to get a different view on how to do it. </div><div>I've always found it easier and cheaper to pull the circuits off the roof to the AC combiner, so my overcurrent is in a different location</div>
<div><br></div><div>Jay</div><div>Peltz power</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Apr 30, 2014, at 5:08 AM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com" target="_blank">jason@fafcosolar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Each microinverter string needs dedicated overcurrent protection. If combining strings on the roof for a single run back to the interconnection point, you need each string to have it's own breaker/fuse. The other option is to run each string back to the interconnection point separately, but for a 10kW system you have to do a supply side connection anyway on as typical 200A service, so combining strings somewhere is necessary, and a single run from the roof makes sense in many cases.</div>
<br><br><div><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="margin:0 0 8px 0"><p style="margin:0"><span><span>Jason Szumlanski </span></span></p><p style="margin:0">
</p><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Fafco Solar</div><br> <p></p><div style="clear:both"></div></div><img src="https://wisestamp.appspot.com/pixview.gif?p=chrome&v=3.32.0&t=1398859272288&u=d0c775731865b324" width="1" height="1"></div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 6:40 PM, jay peltz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com" target="_blank">jay@asis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Follow up to Bill's point.<div><br></div><div>For Micros I've installed a disconnect on the roof, but never a breaker or fuse</div><div>Why install a breaker?</div><div><br></div>
<div>jay</div><div><br></div><div>peltz power<div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Dave<div><br></div><div>I agree, in the case of microinverters, you already have a main PV System disconnect at the Load Panel to shut down the system that is readily accesible. I would consider the disconnect on the roof as a supplemental disconnect for the purposes of maintenance by authorized personal that only needs to be accessible. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Bill</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Dave Click <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu" target="_blank">daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
I think 240.24(A)(4) allows the installation of the inverter OCPDs
in the SolaDeck hidden under a module.<br>
<br>
<b> </b>
<b>240.24 Location in or on Premises.</b><br>
<b> </b>
<b>(A) Accessibility.</b> Overcurrent devices shall be readily
accessible and shall be installed so that the center of the grip of
the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker,
when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.)
above the floor or working platform, unless one of the following
applies:<br>
...<br>
(4) For overcurrent devices adjacent to utilization equipment that
they supply, access shall be permitted to be by portable means.<br>
<br>
<br>
And if panelboards / fused safety switches are allowed to have
screwed-down covers over the OCPDs, I'd think that installing a
removable module over these OCPDs would meet NEC. I guess an AHJ
could argue that this requires TWO covers be removed, unlike a
panelboard or a switch.<br>
<br>
DKC<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 2014/4/29, 11:15, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">690.9(D) is not
applicable to the original discussion because we were talking
about an Inverter output circuit, not a PV Source or Output
circuit.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">690.34 may apply if you
call a SolaDeck with breakers a junction box, but I can see
that being a stretch in the mind of many. </div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">My and Ray's question
about the screws on the SolaDeck cover itself requiring a tool
to render it accessible is still an issue if the breakers
themselves need to be "readily accessible," but that would
also apply to a Midnite MNPV, which also has a cover with a
screw.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="margin:0 0 8px 0"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span><span>Jason Szumlanski</span></span></div>
<div style="clear:both">
</div>
</div>
<img src="https://wisestamp.appspot.com/pixview.gif?p=chrome&v=3.32.0&t=1398783930427&u=d0c775731865b324" width="1" height="1"></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div> <br>
On 4/28/2014 5:57 PM, Bill Brooks wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Read
690.9(D) and 690.34. Not sure where this
“hysteria—run for the border” sentiment is
coming from.</span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Bold","serif";color:windowtext">690.9(D)
Photovoltaic Source and Output Circuits. </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">Listed
PV</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">overcurrent
devices shall be required to provide overcurrent</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">protection
in PV source and output circuits. The
overcurrent</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">devices
shall be accessible but shall not be required to</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">be
readily accessible.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Bold","serif";color:windowtext">690.34
Access to Boxes. </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">Junction,
pull, and outlet boxes</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">located
behind modules or panels shall be so installed
that</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">the
wiring contained in them can be rendered
accessible</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">directly
or by displacement of a module(s) or panel(s)
secured</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">by
removable fasteners and connected by a flexible</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";color:windowtext">wiring
system.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This
is not a change. Please help me understand the
concern.</span></p><div><span> </span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bill
Brooks.</span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 28, 2014 2:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] (no
subject)</span></p>
</div>
</div><div> <br></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Interesting so does "require
a tool" include taking a screw off the cover
plate of the combiner box, too?<br>
What a game changer. I'm going to Mexico for my
next project; I'll actually enjoy even more
being the sole AHJ on the project. <br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>R.Ray Walters</pre>
<pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc</pre>
<pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, </pre>
<pre>Licensed Master Electrician</pre>
<pre>Solar Design Engineer</pre>
<pre><a href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre><p class="MsoNormal">On 4/28/2014 2:52 PM, Michael
Morningstar wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">Readily accessible is now
defined in the 2014 NEC. Installing OCPD’s
underneath a module is a major faux paux, and I
can’t imagine any AHJ thinking otherwise. Having
to remove a module in order to reset a breaker,
what a drag.</p>
<div><div> <br></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>"Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal or
inspection without requiring those
concerned to use a tool, to climb over,
remove obstacle or other.</span><span>”</span></p>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Michael</span></p>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 28, 2014, at
10:29 AM, William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">You call it a solar
panel, I call it a glass j-box cover
plate. <br>
<br>
William<br>
<br>
Miller Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 28, 2014, at
9:21 AM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com" target="_blank">jason@fafcosolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
If that is the interpretation,<br>
I don't see how the breakers are
"readily accessible" in a SolaDeck<br>
mounted anywhere, regardless of
whether it is under a module. It<br>
requires removal of four screws (using
a tool) to access the breakers<br>
inside the enclosure. It's all up to
the AHJ. It has not been an issue<br>
locally here. I can see how other
jurisdictions may not<br>
concur. </p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br></div></blockquote>
</div><br></div></div>