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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It definitely depends on the flashing.
The Oatey type with the rubber gasket die after several years, and
leak.<br>
For our installations, it really depends on the roof. In some
cases with metal roofs, a flashing can't really have the overlap
needed, and so it just becomes a big gooed on L foot really.<br>
Also, I look at L feet as a small 2" x 2" flashing. Relative to
the hole size this is often a reasonable amount of sealing
surface. Compare this to your average 4" plumbing penetration vs
the size of the flashing. Look at how bulk head fittings on
water tanks work. They're under several feet of water, and depend
on a rubber gasket, not a flashing.<br>
<br>
I also consider what's under the roof too. A leak on an open
carport is not as much liability as a leak over the vintage
Steinway grand piano.<br>
Finally, if the roof is already having problems, (I love when they
say: "it only leaks when it rains"......) you need to look at re
roofing, and have the roofer seal around your mounts.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/11/2014 1:52 PM, Will White wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I’ve
had a similar experience as August.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We’re
using Ecofasten Green Flashing plus all holes get a dab of
Geocel Proflex. We’ve also never had a problem with a
properly flashed penetration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>August Goers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 3:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant...
again (is sealant code defensible?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Hi
Troy,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">There
has been an ongoing debate on the RE-Wrenches list on this
issue for years now. I’ve personally serviced many old
L-feet systems that are fine and some that are leaking. The
leaks normally occur in the missed holes adjacent to the
L-foot. Also, many installers were using Sikaflex which over
time loses its adhesion to comp shingles. Sloppy work is the
worst culprit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">We’ve
used all sorts of flashings over the years and primarily
stick with Quickmount E-series these days. All holes, both
hits and misses, are squirted with M-1 sealant (from
Chemlink) and we slide aluminum flashing (standard rolls of
aluminum cut to size in the field) under the shingles for
the missed holes.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">We’ve
never had a leak with a properly flashed system and I am a
strong proponent for using flashing products for all
mounting points.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">August</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Luminalt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Troy Harvey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant...
again (is sealant code defensible?)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. I'm interest in a poll of installers who
are using flashings vs sealant. Now that the flashing market
has evolved, what are you using today? When did you switch to
flashings (if you did). And why not, if you still prefer
sealant.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. Is there a any code defense for
sealant systems ? (L-foot sealed down to shingles). Does
anyone know of a scientific shootout between sealants and
flashings?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is my view: The construction
industry is slow to evolve. Sealants, clauks & adhesives
are not trusted in general, due to the legacy of code, and
we have a mechanical vs. chemical industry bias. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is something about seeing a
flashing that says, that is a "professional job", it must
comply with code. And yet, my experience says I'd trust a
50-year silicone over a flashing that depends on gravity.
Gravity should be dependable right? But anyone in snow
country can tell you in spring, water can go uphill after
ice dams form. There are high-rise buildings that use
"structural glazing" which is just glass and silicone. These
systems are now getting to be 50 years old without issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The cost of flashings have come down in
the last few years, but so has the cost per watt of
installs. With 50 feet in a typical install around here
that is $150 in feet, lags & silicone. Or $1500 in
flashings, and extra labor. That can be a large part of a
bid, and make you more expensive in a competitive
landscape. That is fine, if it adds value... but I
personally don't see the
<i>proven</i> value, other than the "appearance" of code
defensibility. Anybody have proof?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">thanks,<br>
<br>
Troy Harvey<br>
---------------------<br>
Principal Engineer<br>
Heliocentric<br>
801-453-9434<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:taharvey@heliocentric.org">taharvey@heliocentric.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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