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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">Hi All,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">Just wondering if someone could confirm or expand on the assertion in Jason’s document that:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">“NEC Article 690.64(A) allows a Line‐Side AC connection to busbars, conductors, or lugs at any <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">point between the customer’s side of the utility meter, and the service disconnect. Many folks <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">call this a “line‐side tap”, which leads to confusion with the “10‐foot tap rule” and Article <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">240.21(B). <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Tap rules and Article 240 do not apply here
</b>(emphasis added). These aren’t feeders, and service <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">entrance cables don’t have overcurrent protection”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D">Our engineers and design teams have always considered the Tap rules (Article 240, et al.) when utilizing a supply/line
side connections and the utility here looks at this as a “separately derived service.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">Thanks,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">Mark Richardson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">US Light Energy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Brooks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> glenn.burt@glbcc.com; 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Glenn,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
It may be that the equipment sold in your region is that way, but my experience is the opposite. I just looked in my electrical service panel at my home to check my sanity and it is 10,000A rated. So is every single-phase breaker sold at Home Depot or Lowes.
You can’t put 10k breakers in a 25,000AIC panel unless you know the fault current is under 10kA.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I can’t argue with what you see, but you may be misinterpreting the ratings on the equipment. You may be reading something on the actual
breaker, but that does not mean that it is 20kAIC in the panel. It has to be tested and listed with the panel. Again, the key is to confirm what the rating of the panel is. That is located on the inside cover or you can get that from the manufacturer.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bill.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Glenn Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bill,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have never seen a main breaker in a residential main load center (say 200A) that has a rating of less than 20k AIC. Is there somewhere
else in the panel that changes this? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Glenn
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Brooks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Glenn,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The vast majority of service equipment for residences is rated 10k AIC. Although utilities may say they have some residential services
that exceed 10k short circuit availability, it is still pretty rare. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Using single phase gear on a 3-phase commercial installation is a different story. Perhaps this is what you were referring to when
talking about 10k AIC being too low. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t people to get the idea that you have to check the fault current of every PV installation. You should only have to check fault
current on a new service. Simply checking the ratings of the exist service equipment at an installation is sufficient to know what the minimum AIC rating of the equipment must be. The utility is not legally allowed to increase the fault current on a service
above the service equipment ratings unless it is part of a service upgrade and the service equipment is being replaced.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bill.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Glenn Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Beware of breakers used as service disconnects. Most in the range suitable for a supply side connections for PV are really branch circuit rated with
10k AIC which is generally too low for the utility fault current they may be exposed to.<br>
If you can get a statement from the utility with available fault current at the install site you might sneak one in. If you don't want to go to this trouble, use the rating of the exiting main breaker as a minimum value. Usually 20-25k AIC.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-left:.5in;text-align:center">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;mso-outline-level:1">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com">Brian Teitelbaum</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sent: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">3/12/2014 17:32</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Subject: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One big omission, in the otherwise fine Soligent white paper, is that the 60A minimum disconnect has to be rated as “Service Equipment”.
Generally this means a “Heavy-Duty” safety switch or Service-rated load center with Main breaker.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t see why an AC breaker panel, with a Main breaker, couldn’t act as the PV system disconnect, as long as it’s Service-rated,
a minimum of 60A, and the utility does not require an external-handle disconnect, lockable in the off position. Many utility companies still do.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Brian Teitelbaum
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AEE Solar
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;mso-outline-level:1"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2014 2:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Combiner with main breaker as system disconnect
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Don't utter the word tap. :)</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">See:</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.soligent.net/documents/HappyLandings_v3.pdf">http://www.soligent.net/documents/HappyLandings_v3.pdf</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">We usually specify a fusible disconnect for overcurrent protection when grouping the PV AC combiner with the main premises disconnect is not practical.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:6.0pt">
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Jason Szumlanski
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Fafco Solar
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><img border="0" width="1" height="1" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://wisestamp.appspot.com/pixview.gif?p=chrome&v=3.31.0&t=1394658190268&u=eb875d38140ce271"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:31 PM, <<a href="mailto:kevin@renovusenergy.com">kevin@renovusenergy.com</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">I am trying to determine whether an AC combiner panel (for multiple inverter outputs) with main breaker can be also used as the PV system disconnect?
<br>
<br>
This is for a line tap situation. I am accustomed to doing these systems with an AC combiner, and separate enclosure for a breaker style, line tap over current protection.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Kevin </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
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