<div dir="ltr">Bill H;<div>I believe I'm the firefighter you are referring to, and I'm allowed here on the Wrenches list because I've been a professional RE installer since 1994--still my career-- and a firefighter in a rural area with a large percentage of PV and wind installs. A couple talking points:</div>
<div><br></div><div>~Thanks Bill Brooks for explaining here why the roofing class ABC rating system has nothing to do with firefighter rooftop access/egress.</div><div><br></div><div>~Unfortunately ventilating the other side of the roof doesn't always work, wind from the wrong direction, wrong internal compartment in the structure, etc. Also we use chainsaws with carbide teeth, the axes are for flipping open the roof sections; And egress is a problem...do we hang roof ladders from PV modules to escape a roof collapse to the other side?</div>
<div><br></div><div>~A fire commander will *never* risk the lives of his responders to the unknown. Instead the answer will be indirect attack - protect exposures - let it burn. As a RE professional it is *your* job to provide safe designs and installations, label everything simply, obviously and properly as to what is there and how to shut it off, and more importantly reach out to your local fire department with the details on the systems you have installed in their response area, so if they get a call there, they know exactly what they are dealing with in advance. The more they know, the higher the chance they can save the house.</div>
<div><br></div><div>~ There has been at least one high-profile and high-dollar "let it burn" case in the last year. Not good for the PV industry.</div><div><br></div><div>Will see many of you in Denver next month. Somehow I feel like I better keep watching my back.....yikes.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Dan Fink,<br>Executive Director;<br>Otherpower<br>Buckville Energy Consulting<br>Buckville Publications LLC<br>NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers<br>
970.672.4342<br><br> </div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Bill Hennessy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill@berkssolar.com" target="_blank">bill@berkssolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><div><span>Andrew--Thank-you for your work to dampen the fire hysteria that's sweeping the roofs of residential solar. Between the ridiculous setbacks (out here you'd never see a firefighter on a house roof swinging an axe, but if so inclined, they could go on the other side of the peak).<br>
</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><br><span></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<span>And now we need to install mythical products for de-energizing and fire-protection racking. Unless the big leasing companies can beat back the anti-solar "safety" club, rooftop residential is toast.
PV leaders and consultants have caved. A short time ago, a firefighter (what was he doing on the wrench page anyways?) urged installers not to look at their bottom line and take in the big picture.</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<br><span></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><span>That is exactly what you are doing in opposing these rules that are set up for problems that don't exist. The firefighting and code making industries are big bucks. <br>
</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><br><span></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<span>Let's see, wrenches and folks who write the code can't figure out what it says. And in our county in PA, there are 90 different permitting agencies that will be reading the same codes and ordering their interpretations before we get a permit.</span></div>
<span><br>The real big issue is sustainability and climate change and we need to have a society that embraces a rush to PV and not smother it with the love of safety. Want to stop fires? Let's go after toaster ovens.<br>
</span><div> </div><div>Bill Hennessy<br>Berks Solar, LLC<br><br></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Solar Energy
Solutions <<a href="mailto:solarenergysolutions@yahoo.com" target="_blank">solarenergysolutions@yahoo.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:13 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] California State Fire Marshal's "Solar Photovoltaic Installation Guidelines"<br>
</font> </div><div><div class="h5"> <div><br>
<div><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><div><span></span></div><div></div><div> <span><a rel="nofollow" title="" dir="" href="https://us-mg0.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=5kojk045gpsqg#" target="_blank"></a> </span> <div>
<div title="This message has an attachment"></div> <span><span title="Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:41 AM">Today at 11:41 <span>AM</span></span> </span> </div><div style="width:auto"><div><div><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span></span></div><div></div><div>Dear colleagues, </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Rooftop real
estate available for solar is of unparalleled and monumental importance. As we head into our 6th great extinction the solar industry needs to fight tooth and nail to gain 100% access to every inch of available roof space. The fire fighting industry needs to adapt to solar, NOT vice versa. </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>In Oregon, one person, myself, stopped the 12 person BCD committee from adopting the anti solar 3 foot pathway around solar arrays. The committee would not listen to reason. I went to the governors office saying and showing that if the Cal. Guidelines were adopted as code 100% of the roofs we had installed systems on would be 100%illegal and unviable.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Yada yada yada, we got the Koyaanisqatsi Rule.</div><div> </div><div><font><div><b>304.9.1 General Pathway Requirements </b></div></font><b><font><div>Exception
</div></font></b><font><b>1.1. </b></font><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman">Where the PV array does not exceed 25% as measured in plan view of total roof area of the structure, a minimum 12 inch (305mm) unobstructed pathway, shall be maintained along each side of any horizontal ridge. </font></font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"></font></font><b><font></font></b><font></font></div><div><font><b>1.2</b></font><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"><font face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman">. Where the solar array area exceeds 25% as measured in plan view of total roof area of the structure, a minimum of one 36 inch (914 mm) unobstructed pathway from ridge to eave, over a structurally supported area, must be
provided in addition to a minimum 12 inch (305 mm) unobstructed pathway along each side of any horizontal ridge. </font></font></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I still see this as a failure. I had 40% going into the final meeting and one foot from the peak only on pitches greater than 4:12. But, by that time everyone hated me soooo badly for holding such a hard lined solar centric perspective, and for succeeding in going over their heads, it was all I could do to get them to meet.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Unassisted in this battle I was exhausted and unable to follow the proceedings to the end. And, in the end, a rafter span chart hostile to solar was thrown in and now we are dealing with that.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Here is the link to the Oregon Solar Installation Specialty Code: <a href="http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/programs/solar/solar_code/100110_OSISC.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/programs/solar/solar_code/100110_OSISC.pdf</a><div align="LEFT">
</div>
<div> </div><div>The concept and good intentions of a statewide code were good. Unfortunately, the task was left to folk who were not as friendly towards or knowledgeable of solar as one would think would be asked to be part of such a noble cause. </div>
</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Respectfully Submitted,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><font face="comic sans ms"><div><font face="arial"><var></var><b>Andrew Koyaanisqatsi</b></font></div>
<div><font face="arial"><b>President</b></font></div><div><font face="arial"><b>Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.</b></font></div><div><font face="arial"><b>Since 1987,</b></font></div><div><font face="arial"><b>Moving Portland and Beyond </b></font></div>
<div><font face="arial"><b>to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.</b></font></div><div><font face="arial"></font></div><div><font face="arial"><b><a href="tel:503-238-4502" value="+15032384502" target="_blank">503-238-4502</a><br>
</b><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/" target="_blank"><b>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com</b></a><b> </b></font></div><div><b> </b></div><div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>"Better one's House too little one day</b></font></div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>than too big all the Year after."</b></font></div></font></div><div style="display:block"><b> <br> <br> </b><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><b> </b><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<b> </b><div dir="ltr"><b> </b><b><font face="Arial"> On Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:45 AM, Mark Frye <<a href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com" target="_blank">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>> wrote:<br> </font>
</b></div><b> </b><blockquote style="padding-left:5px;margin-top:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"><b> </b><div><b>There are so so many well informed people on this list, and I am so lazy.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">I wish someone could just lay it all out":<br clear="none"><br clear="none">We got the 2012 ABC thing nearly identical to NPPA1 with the set backs <br clear="none">and labeling<br clear="none">We got the 2014 NEC with the de-energizing the conductors and equipment<br clear="none">
We got the IBC which appears to say one thing about fire rating ie. <br clear="none">needs to be the same as roof<br clear="none">And we got the UL thing that seems to be based on the combined rating of <br clear="none">the module and racking system<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">Wow, I commend anyone who is willing to go
into a building department <br clear="none">and lay down a set of plans.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Mark<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 2/13/2014 10:50 AM, William Korthof wrote:<br clear="none">
> Bill,<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Thanks for the attached info. I don't see where the fire rating class of solar modules is addressed though...<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> In the IBC, the specific section (I believe 902.4 or close to that) seems to call for solar modules to carry the same fire rating class as the roofing class required of the building. At least that's the interpretation I initially got from my local building and safety office. They've been sitting on my plans for two weeks so far. When they turn them around, I may have more to talk about.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> /wk<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> William Korthof<br clear="none">>
<a href="tel:714.875.3576" value="+17148753576" target="_blank">714.875.3576</a><br clear="none">> Sustainable Solutions<br clear="none">> #956904<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> On Feb 13, 2014, at 9:34 AM, "Bill Brooks" <</b><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com" shape="rect" target="_blank"><b>billbrooks7@yahoo.com</b></a><b>> wrote:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">> Yes Peter,<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> It is called the 2012 International Fire Code. The California guidelines<br clear="none">> were turned into code in 2012. There is an explanation document I wrote<br clear="none">
> available online at:<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> </b><a rel="nofollow" href="http://solarabcs.org//about/publications/reports/fireguideline/index.html" shape="rect" target="_blank"><b>http://solarabcs.org//about/publications/reports/fireguideline/index.html</b></a><br clear="none">
<b>><br clear="none">> For those
states
that are using NFPA 1 as their fire code, it is nearly<br clear="none">> identical.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Bill.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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