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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Allan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> You might also interpret 300.3(B) as requiring all conductors of the same circuit to be located in the same conduit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Glenn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> August Goers; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] A related question - Individual AC conductors through separate conduits<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>August,<br>Yes, that's relevant to my question. All metal boxes are grounded at both ends by existing EGCs. Only the PVC conduit is not. So when I read section 250.110 as you have cited, "<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>all equipment fastened in place with exposed non-current carrying metal parts likely to become energized needs equipment grounding</span>" is covered correctly.<br><br>This is not a huge deal - it's not difficult to pull the #4 out and add an EGC. I'm just trying to find the appropriate Code reference for an oddball situation. Thank you.<br>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span style='color:#000099'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder, <b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>A Certified B Corporation</span><sup><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>TM</span></sup><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>3209 Richards Lane<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/20/2013 10:44 AM, August Goers wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Hi Allan,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Per NEC 250.110 all equipment fastened in place with exposed non-current carrying metal parts likely to become energized needs equipment grounding. There are some conditions and exceptions listed in the code so you might want to check through that section and apply it to your situation. If you had used metallic conduit such as EMT then the raceway itself would count for equipment ground. However, since it sounds like you have non-metallic conduit you do indeed need a equipment ground wire sized per table 250.122. My general rule of thumb is that all metal boxes and raceways need equipment ground, period. We run equipment ground conductors even in EMT because there is a chance that fittings will loosen over time. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Anyway, that’s my take.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>August</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] A related question - Individual AC conductors through separate conduits</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Wrenches,<br>I need similar advice, please, especially a Code section citation.<br><br>In 2005 we installed an Outback system for a new home in town that was designed and installed to be a grid-backup solar home. It was, in essence, a stand-alone system to run most of the home with the utility serving the backup generator's role, both to provide backup charging when needed and to run a few specific loads. The home was built with two breaker panels side by side, with the PV system wired between them. The meter pedestal was 150' away at the edge of the street. The array was small at 1.32 kW.<br><br>Around 2007 the interconnection terms were quite good and we converted this system into a grid-intertied system. Doing this involved replacing the early Outback FX2024 with a GVFX3524. We also had to run an additional #4 conductor from the system (inverter AC interactive output) to the meter pedestal in order to carry interactive sell-back energy to a REC meter, which had to be located next to the revenue meter. We ran this single conductor in 1" PVC conduit with no other conductor. Given that all AC neutrals were properly bonded, that the conduit was non-conductive, and that all metal parts were properly bonded, we didn't run an EGC with this single THWN. We were permitted and and passed inspection.<br><br>Now we are adding an additional 1.3 kW of PV to the system, which requires full permit process, of course. And in the ensuing years the home has been annexed into the city, with its reputation for toughness in regards to Code compliance. Our design team tells me that we must pull that #4 out and repull it with an EGC, simply because every current-carrying conductor must have a grounding conductor as well. <br><br>My question: What Code section applies here? Is an EGC always required in conduit carrying a single current-carrying conductor? <br><br>We're trying to have our ducks in a row before contacting the inspector, and have never dealt with this particular situation before.<br>Thank you,<br>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span style='color:#000099'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder, <b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>A Certified B Corporation</span><sup><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>TM</span></sup><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>3209 Richards Lane<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/19/2013 11:22 AM, Dave Click wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b>300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit.</b> All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4) [which don't help here]. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2013/11/19, 12:38, August Goers wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Hi All –</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>On a related note, I’ve become good friends with some of the inspectors in San Francisco and they called me yesterday with a question. Is it okay to run <u>individual</u> DC conductors through EMT for wire management purposes? We have always run paired positive and negative conductors in conduit so the question had never occurred to me. Obviously, you have to bond both ends of the conduit if it is over 250 v. I know that AC would have induction issues with running individual conductors but I’m not sure with DC.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>August</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>August Goers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Principal</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Luminalt Energy Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>o: 415.641.4000</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>m: 415.559.1525</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'><a href="http://www.luminalt.com">www.luminalt.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 18, 2013 11:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Bill:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>There is no need to stuff MC4 cables into standard conduit. You can either slot the pipe using our easy method or install bulkhead type connectors. The connectors are readily available. I get them from PV Cables in Northern California..</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Wire routing problems and some solutions can be found on our web-site:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html">http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Since the industry won’t provide wire management solutions, we are making our own. Questions: Just write or call.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>William Miller</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>frenergy<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>William, Bill....from another Bill,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's just me?!) that's still trying to figure out how (or why) to stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and my hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp edges cutting or chaffing into cables, I'm open for advice. Any wire I use on the roof is rated for that type of service and I have some off-grid systems that have been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire still looks nearly new even when flexing it to look for checking/cracks. It seems the wire/insulation can take it, thus it seems like the key to "wire management is to keep the wire from moving and off the roof, secured to the racking, thus not compromising the insulation. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Change email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Change email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>