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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ray,<br>
Yes, I know...<br>
<br>
Doesn't ten years seem a bit weak on a set of Surrette's best? And
the other ten cells are remarkably even. If replacement (which is
already being arranged by Surrette in a good way) gives 3-5 more
years, even with keeping a close eye on cell variations, we have
accomplished a reasonable objective.<br>
<br>
Re a loose connection: this is why I posted the questions: to look
for other possible explanations. Did you see Nick's response: "I
used to see that arc flash all the time from the SW series relays,
even on new SW Series inverters. That always happened when the
contact switched under load." I'd consider this before pulling the
cover off to look for the source of the flash.<br>
<br>
Re the single-string issue, Steve Higgins replied very promptly
(as did James Surrette, to whom I had written before posting
here), saying "<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
you can do to save some fuel is pull the two cells out and
reduce charge voltage per cell… this means if your absorbing
at 28.8, then you adjust the voltage down 2.4vpc to 24vdc… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
you do this you may also want to adjust the LBCO as low as
possible. If you leave the dead cells in it’s just going to
consume more fuel to keep charged."</span><br>
<br>
But we agreed that the new cells would be in place soon enough to
not justify this course of action. I have done the
one-string-from-two temporary solution many times over the years.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan <span class="SpellE">Sindelar</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><u><span
style="color:#000099">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></u></a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder, <b>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">A
Certified B <span class="SpellE">Corporation<sup><span
style="font-size:7.5pt">TM</span></sup></span><br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">3209
Richards Lane</st1:street><br>
<st1:city w:st="on">Santa Fe</st1:city>, <st1:state
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w:st="on">87507</st1:postalcode></st1:address><br>
<b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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On 11/18/2013 6:13 PM, Ray Walters wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:528ABB3E.20108@solarray.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I thought the relays on the SWs were
sealed, so visible arcing sounds bad. Are you sure its not a
loose connection?<br>
Also on the batteries, anytime I've ever seen someone replace
just a couple of cells in a bank that old, it never ended well.
It was like that gopher stomping game, and you hit one problem,
and then another pops up right after.....<br>
We need some kind of financing program for battery replacements,
so that people can get what they really need: a whole new set.<br>
That very situation, is why I quit doing as many single series
strings: one or two cells fail, and the whole system goes. <br>
In this same situation with 2 strings, you create a single
string of your strongest cells to limp the customer along, until
they can afford to replace the set. As cells go down, you keep
pulling in replacements from the retired string. This would be a
great time to take a few of the best used cells from another
aging set on another system that is getting replaced.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 11/18/2013 5:01 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:528AAA57.5090206@positiveenergysolar.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Wrenches,<br>
A longtime off grid customer with a 1997-era Trace SW4024 and a
Kohler 8.5RMY backup generator (with 1,800 hours over 16 years)
has never had an inverter failure, but requested my assistance
with a recent development. His generator has been set up on
automatic operation using standard Trace voltage, quiet time and
load-start program parameters. When it was called to run, it
would charge to 29.6 V with a one-hour absorption, then shut
off. This has worked well until recently. The automatic
operation includes a cool-down and the modest absorption means
that the AC input current at shutdown is going to be pretty low.<br>
<br>
Recently he called me because his generator was starting more
frequently and running for longer duration. Of course, I
immediately suspected the batteries, which are ten-year old 5000
series Surrette 4KS-25PS cells. Upon checking I found two weak
cells, which would explain the inability of the batteries to
reach full voltage and shut off after absorption. I will be
replacing these two cells, which fortunately are both within the
same red polypropylene case, as our only option, as the
homeowner's budget won't allow replacement of the whole set. As
a single string, the two new cells should play reasonably well
with the old cells for a few more years.<br>
<br>
Because of this, the homeowner had recently shut off the
generator at night using the buttons on the inverter, and when
he did this he saw a spark flash from inside the inverter on the
AC end. I was able to duplicate the flash, which I assume to be
the AC2 input relay. The AC2 In setpoint is set to maximum 35A
AC. Until the failed cells are replaced, I have advised the
homeowner to manually control the generator at the generator,
using its AC output breaker to disconnect the current to the
inverter before the 108V AC default input voltage threshold
causes the inverter AC input relay to unlatch under load. While
the SW latches while unloaded and then ramps up input current, I
don't believe that it can reduce input current to zero before
unlatching when shutting down. <br>
<br>
My guess is that after 15 years of flawless performance, the
relay contacts have pitted enough to cause arcing at disconnect,
and if not addressed, the relay on the AC board will eventually
fail. As AC relay boards these days are likely made out of
unobtanium, I'd rather avoid this failure.<br>
<br>
So my questions, please: <br>
1. Have I likely correctly identified the AC input relay as the
most likely cause of the visible arcing when the generator is
turned off at the inverter?<br>
2. Should manual control be a permanent solution?<br>
3. Any other suggestions for this customer?<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan <span
class="SpellE">Sindelar</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><u><span
style="color:#000099">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></u></a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified
PV Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder, <b>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">A Certified B <span
class="SpellE">Corporation<sup><span
style="font-size:7.5pt">TM</span></sup></span><br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">3209
Richards Lane</st1:street><br>
<st1:city w:st="on">Santa Fe</st1:city>, <st1:state
w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:state> <st1:postalcode
w:st="on">87507</st1:postalcode></st1:address><br>
<b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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