<div dir="ltr">Bill.....we have been using the Hellerman Tyton Sunbundler cable ties....They are braided stainless steel wire with a UV resistant vinyl jacket....We have been getting them in quantities of 500 for approximately $.59 each....for the 12" length ties....We like them alot....they do not have any sharp edges and are easy to install....<div>
Hope that helps....</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">Sunny Regards,<br>Kirpal Khalsa<br>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br><a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>541-592-3958 o</div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:46 AM, frenergy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com" target="_blank">frenergy@psln.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div>
<div>William, Bill....from another Bill,</div>
<div> </div>
<div> Two things: For the rest of us
(maybe it's just me?!) that's still trying to figure out how (or why) to
stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and my hesitation in using SS wire ties for
fear of the sharp edges cutting or chaffing into cables, I'm open for
advice. Any wire I use on the roof is rated for that type of service and I
have some off-grid systems that have been in the sun for some 25 years where the
wire still looks nearly new even when flexing it to look for
checking/cracks. It seems the wire/insulation can take it, thus it
seems like the key to "wire management is to keep the wire from moving and off
the roof, secured to the racking, thus not compromising the
insulation. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> I know many on this list are way past
this point in their installation skills. However my living in a county in
the bush of just 20K folks, I haven't had the opportunity to install 100's of
systems....yet. Again, I express my humble appreciation of experienced
wrenches to help those of us working to install the tightest systems possible
despite living in the boonies. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Details on where to source
appropriate SS wire ties (rounded edges?, plastic coated?) would be
appreciated. My goto place for such things (Grainger) has "regular" SS
wire ties that range from $1.50 to $3 each, but none that I can see that address
the sharp edge issue...or is that an issue? Have people been using regular
SS wire ties in the field for 10-20 years, behind a roof mounted array without
any issues related to the wire ties?</div>
<div>Thanks for your help and patience,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bill </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Feather River Solar Electric<br>4291 Nelson St.<br>Taylorsville, CA
95983<br><a href="tel:530.284.7849" value="+15302847849" target="_blank">530.284.7849</a> / 6544 fax</div>
<div><font size="1">"solar powered since 1982"</font></div><div><div class="h5">
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message -----
<div>From: "Bill Loesch" <<a href="mailto:solar1online@charter.net" target="_blank">solar1online@charter.net</a>></div>
<div>To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:34 AM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods</div></div>
<div><br></div>> <br>> Hi William (and any other person who wishes to
describe themselves as <br>> professional (designer, installer,
etc.)),<br>> <br>> Please accept this note as confirmation that your
evangelism on wire <br>> management has not fallen on entirely deaf
ears.<br>> <br>> Additionally, I'm curious how the practice of requiring a
ten year <br>> equipment warranty squares with the acceptance of plastic wire
ties.<br>> <br>> Sincere thanks from one convert,<br>> <br>> Bill
Loesch<br>> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On
Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM, William Miller wrote:<br>> <br>>>
Bill:<br>>><br>>><br>>> I respectfully disagree with your
logic: Define "perfectly <br>>> installed." If<br>>>
your connections are tight and permanent and the conductors are <br>>>
protected<br>>> from damage, you have a great chance of a reliable, safe
lifetime of<br>>> service. How can you guarantee that your leads
will stay protected <br>>> after<br>>> the ties fail? Studies
show that even UV resistant wire ties will <br>>> fail well<br>>>
before the life expectancy of the system has expired. When the ties
<br>>> fail,<br>>> your PV leads are hanging on the roof. Even
before the ties fail, <br>>> rodents<br>>> can chew on them.
Conduit was invented for a reason and we should be <br>>>
using<br>>> it.<br>>><br>>><br>>> I agree that arc-fault
breakers will improve the situation, but I <br>>> don't<br>>> think
any form of OCPD is a substitute for good wiring practices. I <br>>>
think<br>>> wire protection is just as important on PV circuits as it is
on any <br>>> other<br>>> high voltage circuit. Try getting
away with wiring a rooftop air<br>>> conditioning unit by tying the
conductors to some metal framework with<br>>> plastic ties and see how
long it takes to get red-tagged by your local<br>>>
inspector.<br>>><br>>><br>>> I suspect we've gotten to where
we are on lax wire protection <br>>> standards for<br>>> two
reasons:<br>>><br>>> 1. In the early days, PV was
low voltage, 12 to 24 volts, and was <br>>> treated<br>>> as such,
even though current capabilities exceeded that of <br>>> conventional
low<br>>> voltage thermostat, door-bell and telephone
wiring.<br>>><br>>> 2. It is my understanding that
PV wiring standards in Europe are <br>>> not<br>>> stringent, and
European demand drove the PV market for many years. <br>>>
Products<br>>> were built to satisfy the European market and US standards
had to work <br>>> with<br>>> the equipment
available.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Some would say: "if it is under
the array, it is protected." We have <br>>> seen<br>>> PV wire
getting damaged under arrays and it is possible to get damaged <br>>>
under<br>>> BPIV components as well. I believe that protecting PV
wire is more<br>>> important than protecting conventional AC circuit
wiring because PV <br>>> circuits<br>>> are more prone to create and
sustain arcing.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Some say that protecting PV
wire in conduits will add too much expense <br>>> to PV<br>>>
installations. Consider the cost of fires and, inevitably, injuries
<br>>> and<br>>> deaths. One news story about an obscure,
rarely used product is <br>>> already<br>>> causing many of us
headaches. Statistically, it is inevitable that <br>>>
more<br>>> accidents will happen. I don't want that on my
conscience.<br>>><br>>><br>>> I would suggest that we need to
expand the discussion beyond fire <br>>> hazards.<br>>> I also worry
about electrocution hazards in high voltage PV circuits. <br>>>
Good<br>>> wire protection is essential in preventing contact with high
voltages.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Unprotected PV wiring is an
irresponsible practice. I am fighting an <br>>> uphill<br>>>
battle to develops methods to protect PV wiring because the industry
<br>>> is not<br>>> helping at all. The trend has been to make
it harder to protect <br>>> wiring.<br>>> This trend will result in
accidents. I think we should do
better.<br>>><br>>><br>>>
Sincerely,<br>>><br>>><br>>> William
Miller<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of Bill
<br>>> Brooks<br>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:38
PM<br>>> To: 'RE-wrenches'<br>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 423<br>>><br>>><br>>> William
and David,<br>>><br>>><br>>> This particular problem goes away
with arc fault detection. The longer <br>>> we<br>>> wait to
introduce arc fault detection into our systems, the more we <br>>>
will<br>>> have opportunities for news reports such as the one William
brings <br>>> forward.<br>>> Wire ties are not the problem. Could a
wire tie cause a problem-sure, <br>>> just<br>>> like anything
improperly installed.<br>>><br>>><br>>> At the end of the day,
you can a have a perfectly installed system, <br>>> but if<br>>> it
does not have arc fault detection and high resolution ground fault<br>>>
detection, it can still catch on fire. You have no control over <br>>>
product<br>>> failures other than buying from large companies that can
actually <br>>> insure<br>>> their products in a
failure.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Fires are not that common, but it
didn't take much to get all the <br>>> viewers of<br>>> this news
report up in arms did it?<br>>><br>>><br>>>
Bill.<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>
------------------------------<br>>><br>>>
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