<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Wrenches,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Let me clarify my response, which was
to address orientation with respect to electrical </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">functionality, not external influences
such as rain. Certainly moisture would need to be considered </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">in a roof-mounted application, but there
was a question in a previous post about limiting the general </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">use of SquareD OCP devices. I may have
strayed off track, and I didn't want to create confusion. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Eric<br>
</font><font size=3 color=#008000>_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
Eric Bentsen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>UNITED STATES</b> | <b>Technical
Support Representative</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href="http://www.schneider-electric.com/solar" target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.schneider-electric.com/solar</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Address:</b> 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551
<br>
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.schneider-electric.com/solar"><img src=cid:_2_0D1D24DC0D1D1E90007D553188257C20></a><font size=1 color=#00a000 face="Arial"><br>
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<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Gary Willett <Gary@IcarusSolarServices.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">11/11/2013 01:58 PM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Square D Disconnects
mounted on the slope of the roof.</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Fellow Wrenches:<br>
<br>
Per NEMA Standards Publication 250-1997 "Enclosures for Electrical
Equipment (1000 Volts Maximum)", a NEMA 3-R enclosure is designed
to provide a DEGREE of protection against 45 degree angled rain. When testing
for compliance, there can be no significant amount of water within the
enclosure and no water may be present on live parts.<br>
<br>
NEMA 250 states is Section 4.4 ENCLOSURE ORIENTATION:</font>
<br><font size=3><i>If the acceptability of a Type 2 or 3R enclosure is
dependent upon a particular mounting orientation, the enclosure shall be
marked to indicate the required orientation unless the mounting is obvious.<br>
<br>
If a Type 2 or 3R enclosure has knockouts for conduit in the sides or back
of the enclosure in which the equipment to be installed is not known, it
shall be marked to indicate the area in which live parts are to be installed.</i></font>
<br><font size=3>The spec sheet for a NEMA 3-R Square-D safety switch states
that "Device Mounting" is "Surface". I would interpret
that as vertical. Also, a vertical orientation of the enclosure would minimize
the amount of water intrusion from a 45 degree angled rain test. <br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Gary Willett<br>
Icarus Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/11/13, 1:49 PM, </font><a href="mailto:Eric.Bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=3 color=blue><u>Eric.Bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=3>
wrote:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Hi Wrenches,</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
There is no "implication" other than confirming how the disco
<br>
is tested, and thus certified. It probably makes no difference electrically
which position the</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
unit is mounted, but AHJs may have differing opinions on whether this
would be permitted. <br>
Rgds,</font><font size=3 color=#008000><br>
_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
<br>
Eric Bentsen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>UNITED STATES</b> | <b>Technical
Support Representative</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href="http://www.schneider-electric.com/solar" target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.schneider-electric.com/solar</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Address:</b> 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><font size=3 color=blue><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.schneider-electric.com/solar"><img src=cid:_2_0D1CC1480CA8BC14007D553188257C20></a><font size=1 color=#00a000 face="Arial"><br>
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<tr valign=top>
<td width=10%><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td width=89%><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Bob-O Schultze </font><a href="mailto:bob-o@electronconnection.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u><bob-o@electronconnection.com></u></font></a><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE-wrenches </font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></u></font></a><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">11/11/2013 10:09 AM</font><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Square D Disconnects
mounted on the slope of the roof.</font><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a></table>
<br><font size=3><br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font><tt><font size=2><br>
Dan,<br>
I think this thread applied not to OCDs but to an unfused 600VDC disconnect
can mounted on a roof which is less than vertical.<br>
Bob-O<br>
On Nov 11, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Exeltech wrote:<br>
<br>
Wrenches,<br>
<br>
There appears to be some misinformation getting into this thread.<br>
<br>
The "trip" mechanism within standard thermal over-current protective
devices ("OCP devices") is mechanically spring-loaded, and is
triggered by heat.<br>
<br>
Eric mentions below that Square D breakers are tested in a vertical orientation
only - the implication being that's their only "UL certified"
position. If this were true, it would imply the breakers cannot be
used in any other orientation. This would potentially limit the Square
D OCP market to sub-panels and other enclosures where the devices are vertical.
Inasmuch as the vast majority of panelboards I've encountered in
my 40+ years in this industry have the breakers stacked horizontally, it
would not be a wise business decision for the manufacturer to self-inflict
such a limitation on their product.<br>
<br>
This also does not mean any such limitation (real or not) applies to all
breakers.<br>
<br>
By way of example, OCP devices work in a horizontal position, stacked "pancake"
style in a main panelboard, as well as vertically oriented side-by-side
in a sub-panel. In either orientation, they are in full compliance
with UL 489, (UL Standard for Circuit Breakers, Switches, and Circuit Breaker
Enclosures). If an OCP device *was* positionally-sensitive, UL Standards
require this sensitivity to be noted in the documentation accompanying
the device. Further to that point, UL 489 Section 7.1.1.13 states:
"In determining if a circuit breaker complies with the test requirements,
the device shall be mounted or supported as in service and tested under
conditions approximating those of intended operation, except as otherwise
noted."<br>
<br>
Mounting position notwithstanding, a greater concern would be the ambient
temperature of a rooftop location, whereby summer heat would tend to make
the OCP device more sensitive than necessary, potentially causing it to
trip at an amperage below that of its UL ratings. While a nuisance,
a more serious issue arises when operating the OCP device in cold ambient
conditions, whereby the device may allow MORE than its rated trip current
to flow.<br>
<br>
Per UL 489, OCP devices are tested at either 25C or 40C ambient. Again
per UL 489, if an OCP device is to be used in ambient conditions other
than those two ranges, the acceptable temperature range for that OCP device
shall be marked on the body of the device.<br>
<br>
In UL 489, Supplemental Annex, Section 2, Subsection 2.3.3, mechanical
vibration testing is conducted with OCP devices oriented vertically, horizontally,
and inclined 30 degrees from vertical, with all devices energized up to
200% of the device rated current during the testing.<br>
<br>
Given the preceding, and per implication of UL 489 testing methods, OCP
devices are NOT positionally sensitive.<br>
<br>
In conclusion, if you DO install a rooftop OCP system, and for proper protection,
please ensure the OCP devices utilized are rated for the worst-case ambient
temperatures involved.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards to all,<br>
<br>
<br>
Dan Lepinski<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 09:33 AM 11/8/2013, you wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Kirpal,<br>
<br>
All Square D safety switches are UL tested in the Vertical position ONLY,
so if someone is trying to install a switch in any other position other
than vertical, that will be between them and the inspector.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps. <br>
<br>
Eric<br>
____________________________________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business
| UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative
<br>
Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: </font></tt><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><tt><font size=2 color=blue><u>eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></tt></a><tt><font size=2>
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