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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Just to add to the discussion: Maui
Electric (MECO) has had the same policy of denying all battery
based systems. My understanding is they won't even allow simple
battery backup systems (no grid tie, so sell back).<br>
PNM (in Alan's backyard) used to require a very expensive and
unnecessary load break rated transfer switch for battery backup
systems<span class="moz-smiley-s2"><span> :-( </span></span><br>
This issue is important to all of us, as regular grid tie goes
more towards big lease outfits like Solar City, et al. these more
complicated backup systems could be the smaller installers' bread
and butter. It also has the capability in the future of further
stabilizing the grid. Being able to sell from the battery during
potential brown outs with the utility's consent might actually
give the utilities more incentive to allow these systems.<br>
With talk of even electric vehicles being able to sell back some
of their stored energy at peak times, I think the potential to
further stabilize the grid is there, but of course the old school
guard is wary of anything that might loosen their monopolies.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 8/8/2013 3:50 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:520412B1.1050007@positiveenergysolar.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Phil and Wrenches,<br>
I agree that SCE's position is not suppportable. SCE has a long
history of obstructing PV while professing to support it; that's
my opinion based on following online PV newsletters and Wrenches
posts over the years. If SCE gets away with this, other
utilities are likely to follow. I don't know what action if any
we should take, as we're not in California. Should installers
outside of California weigh in on this? If so, how?<br>
<br>
I am also of the opinion that utilities in general are gathering
resources to fight back against this disruptive technology - PV,
not batteries - that will fundamentally alter their
regulated-monopoly-with-guaranteed-rate-of-return business
structure. New Mexico is no exception, as we have already seen
on multiple occasions.<br>
<br>
Simple reality: buying power at nighttime off peak rates to
charge batteries in order to sell power back at peak day rates
is not cost effective when the amortized cost of battery
replacement due to heavy cycling is factored in. So independent
of the legality of SCE's position, it simply doesn't make
financial sense.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan <span class="SpellE">Sindelar</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><u><span
style="color:#000099">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></u></a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional <br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b>, a Certified B <span
class="SpellE">Corporation<sup><span
style="font-size:7.5pt">TM</span></sup></span><br>
3209 Richards Lane<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank"><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
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On 8/8/2013 3:02 PM, Phil Undercuffler wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPLQxEL6gXwaGUFc4n2--_iZZRBmPpV8EVJsgGqq1FwFpEy3zw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Wrenches,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Unfortunately,
this is affecting all battery-based systems -- it's not
limited to OutBack. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">SCE
recently issued an External Memorandum stating their
position. I've read the memorandum, but I've also read
SCE's Rule 21 and their NEM tariff, and the utility's
position is not supported by their own rules. These systems
fully meet the requirements of the SCE Rule 21 and NEM
Tariff. The new RPS Guidebook, which the SCE NEM Tariff
uses to define permissible systems, allows for two classes
of energy storage -- Integrated, and Directly Connected.
With Directly Connected energy storage, the system can be
charged by any number of sources. The customer is allowed
to have onsite loads. Maintaining a battery is an onsite
load. The only energy exported is from the renewable
source, the PV array. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">SCE's
position that the battery can never charge from the grid is
simply not supported by their own rules, However, their
current position has put a substantial barrier in place to
homeowners that desire grid-tie with battery backup, and to
businesses like your own that support this market. We need
to push back against this position, and help people move
forward with their renewable energy systems. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
would ask any of you affected by this issue to press the
CPUC to give SCE and the other utilities clear and specific
guidance on this issue as soon as possible. Explain how this
current impasse affects your business and your customers. <span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Telephone:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:866-849-8390"
value="+18668498390" target="_blank">866-849-8390</a> or
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:415-703-2074"
value="+14157032074" target="_blank">415-703-2074</a> </span><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Email:
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:public.advisor@cpuc.ca.gov"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
target="_blank">public.advisor@cpuc.ca.gov</a>. Better
yet, file a complaint with the CPUC, either as an informal
complaint or as a formal complaint. Formal complaints carry
far more weight, but take more work. More info on the
process is available at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/aboutus/Divisions/CSID/Public+Advisor/"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
target="_blank">http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/aboutus/Divisions/CSID/Public+Advisor/</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best
regards,</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Philip Undercuffler<br>
Director, Product Management and Strategy<br>
OutBack Power Technologies<br>
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:360.618.4306"
value="+13606184306" target="_blank">360.618.4306</a> office
| <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:425.319.2821"
value="+14253192821" target="_blank">425.319.2821</a> mobile<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.outbackpower.com"
target="_blank">www.outbackpower.com</a><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 7:45 AM,
August Goers <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">august@luminalt.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p> Hi Wrenches,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I bumped into this article about an Outback
battery backup system being rejected by a utility
in Southern CA:</p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2013/08/solar-battery-backup-under-attack-in-california?cmpid=SolarNL-2013-08-08"
target="_blank">http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2013/08/solar-battery-backup-under-attack-in-california?cmpid=SolarNL-2013-08-08</a></p>
<p>It sounds like the utility is rejecting the
system because the batteries have the capability
of feeding back to the grid. I'm not familiar
enough with the Outback system to know how this
would work. We are installing a pretty good amount
of Sunny Island based battery backups these days
but they don't have the capability of sending
battery power to the grid.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-August</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><b><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Century
Gothic',sans-serif">August Goers</span></b></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:'Century
Gothic',sans-serif">Luminalt Energy Corporation</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:'Century
Gothic',sans-serif">o: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:415.641.4000"
value="+14156414000" target="_blank">415.641.4000</a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:'Century
Gothic',sans-serif">m: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:415.559.1525"
value="+14155591525" target="_blank">415.559.1525</a></span></p>
<p> </p>
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