<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Steve,<div>Good advice but I'm not at all surprised that most folks don't have a hydrometer. Frankly, unless you are willing to spend a bunch of dough, you aren't going to get one that is worth having. And, they are damn hard to find. The $5 cheapies with the floating balls, etc are just worthless, IMO. </div><div>Bob-O</div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Steve Higgins wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Maybe, I’m overstepping here… but here goes.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In most off grid systems you are going to run just a tad bit hotter voltage/time. This is because most of the batteries that are sold into this market were really designed and meant for Industrial applications. The industrial application assumes that you are pretty much charging the battery with a stiff grid sourced current based charger every single night.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In most off grid systems the customer is slowly letting the battery fall to a 25% or 50% DOD state of discharge before enabling a fossil fuel source to bring the battery to full state. When these batteries are run at lower state for a period of time they need a bit more voltage to remove the sulfation that has developed on the plates. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">What I’ve found over the last year is many people are depending on way too small of an array to get any battery bank charged, and of course are very reluctant to use a genset to power an inverter to charge the batteries. This leads to poor SG’s and eventual failure. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">It also amazes me with how many people don’t even own a hydrometer to check the true state of charge on their battery. Talked with a guy that has his batteries for 5 years and has NEVER taken an SG measurement.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><p><font face="Tahoma" style="font-size: 14pt; "><strong>Steve Higgins<br><font style="font-size: 12pt; ">Technical Services Manager</font><br></strong></font><font face="Tahoma"><strong></strong></font><font face="Tahoma"></font><font face="Tahoma">M: +1.206.790.5840<br></font><font face="Tahoma">F: +1.902.597.8447<br></font><font color="#ff0000" face="Tahoma"><strong style="font-family: tahoma; "><font color="#d30000">Surrette Battery Company</font><br></strong></font><font face="Tahoma" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Exclusive manufacturer of<br><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com/" style="color: blue; "><span><rollsa5da08.jpeg></span></a></font></p><br><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>RE Ellison<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 07, 2013 2:29 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; ">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">I would be more inclined to think it's because of a denser plate material in the larger batteries<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">I know surrettes need longer absorbs and I believe a bit higher of a charging voltage to remain happy<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">And I generally run the Trojan L16s Just a bit higher than normal<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">Bob Ellison<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><br>On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; ">allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">Eric,<br>I kept this in my inbox for awhile, and finally had to ask - where did you get this information? I have never heard this recommendation - to charge a taller flooded lead acid battery to a higher voltage just because it's taller. I guess I see the apparent logic - more gassing addresses a potential for more stratification of the electrolyte - but if true, why have I never seen this in any battery service guide? What's your source? And has anyone else heard of this?<br>Thanks, Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; "><u><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); ">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></u></a></span><br><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br><b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b>, a Certified B Corporation</span><sup><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; ">TM</span></sup><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><br>3209 Richards Lane<br>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br><b>505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell</b><br><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; "><u>www.positiveenergysolar.com</u></a></span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; "></span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="color: windowtext; ">On 7/16/2013 7:53 AM,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Eric.Bentsen@schneider-electric.com" style="color: blue; "><u>Eric.Bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="color: windowtext; "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">Hi Drake,</span><span style="color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">The L16 is quite popular in RE apps...but they typically require a bit higher charge voltage to reach the correct SOC than their shorter counterparts (i.e. T105 golf cart),</span><span style="color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">because they are a taller battery (stands to reason .....specific "gravity"). Make sure they are in a vented enclosure if off-gassing will be an issue.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: windowtext; "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">Eric<br></span><span style="color: green; ">_____________________________________________________________________________________</span><span style="color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><br>Eric Bentsen</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> | </span><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: green; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Schneider Electric<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "> | Solar Business</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> | <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>UNITED STATES</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> | <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Technical Support Representative</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><br>Phone:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><br>Email:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: windowtext; "><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com" style="color: blue; "><u><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</span></u></a></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> | <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Site:</b></span><span style="color: windowtext; "><a href="http://www.schneider-electric.com/solar" target="_blank" style="color: blue; "><u><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>www.schneider-electric.com/solar</span></u></a></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> | <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Address:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551</span><span style="color: windowtext; "><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="color: windowtext; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="color: windowtext; ">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; "><u>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></a><br><br>Change email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; "><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; "><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; "><u>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</u></a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" style="color: blue; "><u>www.members.re-wrenches.org</u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div>This email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. 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