<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi Brian,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> The issue is in backup mode, any
grid tie source that exceeds the rating of a single XW could potentially
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">overload the XW, because it will not
necessarily split the power amongst the other XW units.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">You can certainly have separate single
inverter AC coupled systems feeding the same main panel.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Eric<br>
</font><font size=3 color=#008000>_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
Eric Bentsen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>UNITED STATES</b> | <b>Technical
Support Representative</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href="http://www.schneider-electric.com/solar" target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.schneider-electric.com/solar</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Address:</b> 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551
<br>
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.schneider-electric.com/solar"><img src=cid:_2_0B1331440B13138800723DE788257BB9></a><font size=1 color=#00a000 face="Arial"><br>
*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</font><font size=1 face="Arial">
</font><font size=3><br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Brian Teitelbaum <bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">07/31/2013 01:18 PM</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling
Sunpower?</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Eric,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Can you expand on your “total
kW of the grid-tie unit cannot exceed the rating of a single XW, even in
a multi-unit system” comment?</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">I assume that with multiple
XW (or other battery-based) inverters, since the AC is all coupled together,
there is no way to prevent a pass-through AC relay in one of the inverters
from being potentially overloaded. Since no two relays will have exactly
the same resistance, and since the power will always take the path of least
resistance, it could cause the amperage of the least resistive relay to
exceed its rating.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Is this correct, and is this
what you are referring to?</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">If so, I assume that you
could use multiple XW inverters, as long as they had separate GT inverters,
with separate critical loads panels, installed. They would essentially
be separate back-up systems, each running different loads, but all connected
to the grid in the same Main panel.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Brian Teitelbaum</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">AEE Solar</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[</font><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 face="Tahoma">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric.Bentsen@schneider-electric.com<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:52 PM<b><br>
To:</b> RE-wrenches<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Hi,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
That is correct...the XW does have a frequency shift (Batt V=Bulk) that
causes grid-tie inverter to disconnect. Remember, the <br>
total kW of the grid-tie unit cannot exceed the rating of a single XW,
even in a multi-unit system.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Eric</font><font size=3 color=#008000 face="Times New Roman"><br>
_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b><br>
<br>
Eric Bentsen</b> | </font><font size=1 color=#008000 face="Arial"><b>
Schneider Electric </b></font><font size=1 face="Arial"><b> | Solar
Business</b> | <b>UNITED STATES</b> | <b>Technical
Support Representative</b> <b><br>
Phone:</b> +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | <b><br>
Email:</b> </font><a href="mailto:eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>eric.bentsen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Site:</b></font><a href="http://www.schneider-electric.com/solar" target=_blank><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>
www.schneider-electric.com/solar</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">
| <b>Address:</b> 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551
</font><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.schneider-electric.com/solar"><img src=cid:_2_0B9FE9480B9FD8E800723DE788257BB9></a><font size=1 color=#00a000 face="Arial"><br>
*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail</font><font size=1 face="Arial">
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font>
<p>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=14%><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">From:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td width=85%><font size=1 face="Arial">Ryan <</font><a href=mailto:ryan@kb1uas.com><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>ryan@kb1uas.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">To:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Date:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">07/31/2013 11:16 AM</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Subject:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial">Sent by:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<td><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a></table>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<div align=center>
<br>
<hr noshade></div>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
Ray<br>
You did not mention the XW, it frequency dithers so it is a pretty straight
forward setup. It also comes in 4, 4.5 and 6KW<br>
<br>
Ryan<br>
</font><img src=cid:_2_07E9350C0BA02DCC00723DE788257BB9><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
On 7/31/2013 2:04 PM, Ray Walters wrote: <br>
Hi Kelly;<br>
<br>
I agree the Radian system is appealing. Its basically uses a circuit
breaker that can be controlled like a relay as well, and just disconnects
the GT inverter.<br>
I'm going to offer a brief table of what I've found for my choices:</font>
<p>
<table border width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=9%><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Brand </font>
<td width=24%><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Control Method </font>
<td width=27%><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Pros </font>
<td width=38%><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Cons </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">SMA Sunny Island </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Frequency shift to disconnect GT
inverter </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">simplest wiring, Trusted GT industry
player </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">most expensive, Freq shift can
cause other problems </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Outback Radian </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Remote controlled Circuit breaker
disconnects GT inverter </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">fairly simple wiring, relay
and breaker are combined, better control of battery charging </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">still expensive, not available
in smaller than 8 kw model </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Magnum </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Diversion load controls for battery
regulation (soon to offer AC load control) </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">lower cost, proven technology,
freq shift control offered as fail safe </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">most complicated wiring, diversion
loads not always reliable or available </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Modsine Backup system </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">no AC coupling, just an old fashioned
backup system </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">low cost </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">complicated, needs customer interaction,
not as efficient, GT PV not used, dedicated PV modules only charge backup
system </font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Generator </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">No AC coupling, generator runs
backup loads </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">lowest cost, backup power
available for as long as outage (no batteries)<br>
best for week long outages that only occur every few years </font>
<td><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Not Renewable, fuel storage issues,
doesn't switch fast enough to maintain computers, etc.</font></table>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
I'm still pricing out the options, but the SI and Radian seem a bit overkill
for smaller systems. Backup inverter power of just a couple thousand
watts is all that most people need. The Magnum is appealing, but
I have quite a bit of experience with load diversion controls from wind
and Hydro systems, and I really feel that its overly complicated for the
less than 1% of the time that the grid is out. Keeping the battery
from being damaged is what's important, but maintaining full 3 stage charging
for a couple of days a year is not. The batteries can be properly
charged once the grid returns. May be able to use Outback's ROCB
with the Magnum? That might get the best of both worlds.<br>
If I was building the entire system to start, I'd just use a single Outback
GVFX with its own PV array, and add GT inverters and array that were independent
for the rest of the GT requirements. This project however is retrofitting
an existing GT system. <br>
I've done many backup systems in the days before Grid Tie, and they work
fairly well. Basically either the modules are not used much of the
time, or the customer has a few circuits that are on the backup system
(off grid) all the time. They operate it just like an off grid system,
the only difference is that when its time to run a generator, they can
just switch to the grid. These are not for your average customer,
but can work well for someone that likes to save money and tinker.<br>
Another consideration is that if the battery bank is large enough relative
to the array, over charging becomes less of an issue; especially with flooded
cells that can stand a bit of over charging ("equalization")
every now and then. However, I can see that the average small sealed
battery bank hooked up to several KWs of PV could get ruined in a day.<br>
I'll close with a quote from Joe Swartz in his 2012 Solar pro magazine
article : <br>
<br>
"AC coupling is still the Wild West of renewable energy applications"<br>
</font><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
R.Ray Walters<br>
CTO, Solarray, Inc<br>
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, <br>
Licensed Master Electrician<br>
Solar Design Engineer<br>
303 505-8760</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
On 7/30/2013 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: <br>
Ray, <br>
The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be grid-interactive.
The grid passes through the BB inverter to the grid-direct inverter(s).
The BB inverter is there to create a stable grid-like signal for the grid-direct
inverters when the grid is not present, and to manage the batteries. Thus,
the pass-through AC capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a
complicated work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output,
when loads are low. <br>
You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system
needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as
a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads
can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done
by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting
them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay
that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets
to a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet.
Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed
way to do it. About time. <br>
<br>
-Kelly </font><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. <br>
Principal<br>
Whidbey Sun & Wind<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
NABCEP PV Installation Professional<br>
WA Electrical Administrator</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=mailto:kelly@whidbeysunwind.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>kelly@whidbeysunwind.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><br>
PH & FAX: 360.678.7131</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters <</font><a href=mailto:ray@solarray.com><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>ray@solarray.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>
wrote: <br>
<br>
The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the
Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out.
I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency
controlled system.<br>
My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled? I'm
trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the
GT inverter.<br>
I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation.
This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if
possible. I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with
battery back up is in order. A Radian Lite?<br>
For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than
generator power or the average UPS setup.<br>
<br>
<br>
R.Ray Walters<br>
CTO, Solarray, Inc<br>
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,<br>
Licensed Master Electrician<br>
Solar Design Engineer<br>
303 505-8760<br>
<br>
On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote: <br>
Hi All;<br>
<br>
I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new issue:
positive grounding. A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower
system wants to add backup. He was put off by the high cost the
Sunny Island, so I was steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled
to just one of his 3 inverters. The issue is how will the VFX work
with positive grounded inverters. I'm assuming that since the two
inverters will only be connected by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding
of their separate DC systems will not matter. Any experience with
this particular scenario: Sunpower system AC coupled to an Outback?<br>
Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used during
outages (which might allow a generator to be used later as well)
A VFX should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage,
right?<br>
<br>
Thanks as always,<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: </font><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>www.members.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: </font><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.members.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: </font><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/"><font size=3 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.members.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Courier New"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: </font><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><font size=2 color=blue face="Courier New"><u>www.members.re-wrenches.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
</font>
<p><font size=3><br>
______________________________________________________________________<br>
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.<br>
______________________________________________________________________</font><tt><font size=2>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br>
<br>
Change email address & settings:<br>
</font></tt><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size=2>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
<br>
List-Archive: </font></tt><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size=2>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
</font></tt><a href="www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><tt><font size=2>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
</font></tt><a href="www.members.re-wrenches.org"><tt><font size=2>www.members.re-wrenches.org</font></tt></a><tt><font size=2><br>
<br>
</font></tt>
<p>
<p>