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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Did you look for dead cells? I've
seen many L 16 sets (including my own) only last 4-1/2 years, so
that set was already almost done. If she started mixing new
batteries in before, she knew she already had a problem. Did this
system change from 12 v to 24 v? The rule of thumb for eons (or
at least the long history of lead acid batteries) is that a mixed
set of new and old batteries will only last as long as the oldest
battery. The new batteries will be chronically undercharged,
while the old ones will be chronically over charged. <br>
My guess is the higher charging rate available caused some
already heavily sulfated cells to go ahead and short out. <br>
It's like giving a gasping man some oxygen, and then he goes into
cardiac arrest. You did what you could, but those batteries were
on their way out already. <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 7/23/2013 3:36 PM, William wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CF5BF1A1-EE54-4B6F-AA0D-4E97010FF49C@millersolar.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Brian:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't have the PV details handy but I will provide them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Question: will a sulfated cell exhibit a SG of 1.26? I
thought a sulfated cell locked the acid onto the plates,
minimizing the SG readings below that of a healthy cell. 1.26 is
a relatively high reading. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>William</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 23, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Brian Teitelbaum <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com">bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">William,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
does the PV array consist of? What size and type, and
how many, modules?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Which
TriStar? 45 or 60A?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
controller did she have before the upgrade?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
high charging voltage might be a sign of sulfation.
Depending on her load profile, that 8A charge rate might
have caused chronic undercharging. In a 5 peak sun-hour
location, that’s only 40Ah/day of charging capacity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Brian
Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">AEE
Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Friends:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
have a customer with a new Tristar MPPT controller.
The customer has some older L-16 batteries mixed
with new and she thinks the controller has damaged
her batteries. I am trying to convince her that the
batteries were already damaged and mixing old with
new is a bad idea.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
removed the worst batteries from the array, leaving
one string of older batteries with reasonable SG
readings. The CC still acts strangely: When
programmed to charge the L-16 batteries, the battery
voltage shoots up to 30.2 volts and the batteries
boil a lot. The green light on the controller
blinks at variable rates, at one moment fast, the
next slow, the next solid.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
believe the client started with bad batteries, 6 are
4 years old, 2 are 1 year old. She is convinced
that the CC damaged her batteries. She replaced
panels and CC recently, installing the Tristar. I
believe the old PV system charged at such a slow
rate (8 amps) that the battery deficiency was not
apparent. The higher charging rate has emphasized
the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Any
one have any thing to add to my theory?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thanks
in advance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">William
Miller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><image002.jpg><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">17395
Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.millersolar.com/">www.millersolar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">805-438-5600
voice*</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">*Note:
above number replaces cell number</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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