<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Short message, off on a week long mountain bike trip (Durango to Moab) with 15yo son... </div><div><br></div><div>I believe that the phantom load is 8 watts continuous if run off of AC. I have not tested this myself, as I had inverter AC at the Bennie hookup location and I'm hard wired so can't test it with a KillaWatt; the </div><div><br></div><div>When I first got my unit I told them how impractical an AC phantom load was, both because of traditional efficient issues (less important these days of cheap PV and lotsa phantom loads), but mainly because few off grid homeowners had a load circuit out at the gennie location. I was told that keeping the battery charged with a small module and controller is fine and doesn't jeopardize warranty. </div><div><br></div><div>I hope this helps. </div><div><br></div><div>No email for a week.</div><div>Allan<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
A client has already purchased one of these and I plan to hook it up
soon. Although I generally advise customers to avoid automatic starting,
this unit needs to auto start. It would be an issue if the unit really
has a 50 W phantom load that runs 24/7. <br><br>
It seems that there are different ideas concerning the magnitude of this
draw. Does anyone know for sure if it will, or will not use that much
energy in the auto start position? 50 Wh/hr X 24 = 1.2 KW/Day. The
generator would run at times to feed its own phantom loads. <br><br>
Thanks,<br><br>
Drake <br><br>
<br><br>
At 01:35 PM 7/7/2013, you wrote:<br>
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Jay –<br>
<br>
I’ve done this before with the Kohler RES series to eliminate the
phantom in auto-mode, BUT stressing to all that the generator could start
automatically without notice – especially to the generator tech. As
always, best to disconnect the starting battery when servicing. <br>
<br>
Kirk Herander<br>
VT Solar, LLC<br>
dba Vermont Solar Engineering<br>
NABCEP<sup>TM </sup>Certified Inaugural Certificant<br>
NYSERDA-eligible Installer<br>
VT RE Incentive Program Partner<br>
802.863.1202<br>
<br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>jay peltz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac Ecogen (was RE: generator
suggestions)<br>
<br>
Hi Kirk <br>
<br>
One trick I learned from my generator guy is to hook up the remote start
to the manual on position<br>
This bypass's the auto position and the extra load on the battery<br>
<br>
Best I can tell only difference on the Koehler anyway is how fast it
starts. On auto right now<br>
On manual a few seconds delay. <br>
<br>
Jay<br>
<br>
Peltz power<br><br>
Sent from my iPad<br><br>
On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:46 AM, "Kirk Herander"
<<a href="mailto:kirk@vtsolar.com">kirk@vtsolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Alan and others,<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>I have an off-grid customer looking at the Ecogen. Now that 6 months
have passed since your comments, can you tell us more of the pros and
cons of this unit? <br>
</dd><dd>I read somewhere the phantom load of the controller (and charger?) is
20 to 50 watts total. Is it just the controller which needs to stay
awake? Is there a separate charger for the battery, meaning no alternator
/ rectifier direct from the engine? Regardless, it seems dumb to me
that a generator designed for off-grid would mandate a phantom load to
operate. For that reason, it seems no more appealing than the Kohler R
series. Is there an on-board hour-meter? Thanks. The brochure does not
address these questions.<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>Kirk Herander<br>
</dd><dd>VT Solar, LLC<br>
</dd><dd>dba Vermont Solar Engineering<br>
</dd><dd>NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant<br>
</dd><dd>NYSERDA-eligible Installer<br>
</dd><dd>VT RE Incentive Program Partner<br>
</dd><dd>802.863.1202<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>From:
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Allan Sindelar<br>
</dd><dd>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:21 PM<br>
</dd><dd>To: RE-wrenches<br>
</dd><dd>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] generator suggestions<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>Ray,<br>
</dd><dd>Everything has changed. The Kohler 6.5RMY and the Onan 6.5 Commercial
were wonderful units, but also both flathead twins, eventually
discontinued for efficiency and emissions reasons, as I came to
understand. Also, the American residential market was (and remains)
almost exclusively about home standby, not off grid, and the major
manufacturers went in that direction. Home standby is a competitive
market, and generators aren't expected to run for many hours over their
useful life, so internals can be cheapened and features to make them more
like a home appliance are added. Many of us have customer horror stories
about home standby units used off grid.<br><br>
</dd><dd>I have written favorably about the Generac EcoGen here and in Home
Power, as it's pretty much currently the only under-10K unit designed for
off grid use. I have now had two at my home - we had a fire in May that
took out an outbuilding and the gennie, and I replaced it with the same
model, because it had performed well and there was nothing else to
compete with it. Always starts, minimal maintenance, exceeds its rated
output on occasion, doesn't require a separate enclosure, and is sealed
against mice. Oh, and very quiet. So far the only disadvantage is the
need for either an AC feed for the 8W phantom load to keep the controller
awake, but a PV module and small controller on the starting battery will
handle that one of these days. It's not just one of their standard units
with different bells and whistles, but has hardened valves, lower (2,500)
rpm, longer maintenance intervals, and other reliability
features.<br><br>
</dd><dd>I know all about Generac's otherwise-poor reputation, and am willing
to stick my neck out about this model, as I think it's the best we
currently have in this size range. My understanding is that the Propane
Reliability Council (or some similar organizational name) was involved
with sponsoring development of an LP gennie tough enough to handle off
grid demands. They first approached Kohler, who turned them down, and
then worked with Generac (all this is hearsay; don't quote me on
it).<br>
</dd><dd>Allan<br>
</dd><dd>Allan Sindelar<br>
</dd><dd><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com">
Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
</dd><dd>NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
</dd><dd>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br>
</dd><dd>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
</dd><dd>Founder and Chief Technology Officer<br>
</dd><dd>Positive Energy, Inc.<br>
</dd><dd>3209 Richards Lane (note new address)<br>
</dd><dd>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
</dd><dd>505 424-1112<br>
</dd><dd><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/">
www.positiveenergysolar.com</a> <br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>On 1/30/2013 10:41 AM, Ray Walters wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Hi Randy and all;<br><br>
</dd><dd>I definitely like the water cooled 1800 rpm machines too, but for
regular off grid homes, they just are way out of the budget. We
jumped on the inverter generator band wagon for a while, but had the same
load issues Allan described. (Microwave kicks the breaker, and
you're running the genny for hours for nothing) Many customers have
turned to the contractor portables with equally disappointing results,
but often they already have the genny, and we just provide an inlet box
and cord. <br>
</dd><dd>The Generac looks like a good idea, I wish Onan or Kohler would build
one. Kohler used to make a 6.5 Kw that fit the one inverter household
fairly well.<br><br>
</dd><dd>Ray Walters<br><br>
</dd><dd>THeOn 1/30/2013 8:55 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power
Systems wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Randy, <br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>I concur, the Cummins/Onan generators are built well and are
reliable. They provide a 1 year, 1000 hour warranty for off grid use when
a RE system is installed for primary power. <br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>We install lots of Magnum Energy inverters with AGS modules in RV's.
What sold me on the Onan's is having seen many RV generators (3600, 2880
and 2400 RPM), some with several thousand hours, still operating with
tight frequency and voltage control, no leaks, easy starting,
etc.<br><br>
</dd><dd>Larry Crutcher<br>
</dd><dd>Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
</dd><dd> <br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Randy Brooks wrote:<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>Todd, <br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>We don't sell or install generators, but the only one I recommend for
permanent installations is the Cummins/Onan, 1,800 rpm, propane
fueled. All others have failed early.<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>Good luck,<br>
</dd><dd> <br>
</dd><dd>Randy Brooks<br>
</dd><dd>Brooks Solar, Inc.<br>
</dd><dd>Solar Power for People<br>
</dd><dd>140 Columbia View<br>
</dd><dd>Chelan, WA 98816<br>
</dd><dd>509-682-9646<br>
</dd><dd><a href="mailto:Randy@BrooksSolar.com">Randy@BrooksSolar.com</a><br>
</dd><dd><a href="http://www.brookssolar.com/" eudora="autourl">
www.BrooksSolar.com</a><br><br>
</dd></dl><br><br>
<br><br>
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