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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Marco –<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As we are a SunPower dealer, there is really no question on which product to use for the 96-cell module (which we have a preference for over the 72-cell), as Enphase does not yet have a 300w or 350w micro-inverter yet. To qualify our comments, have installed 14 SolarEdge systems and 10 Enphase systems to date.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>From our experience in New Mexico, we have branches from Taos to Las Cruces, but the optimizer v. micro-inverter choice is more important when the heat factor comes into play, as in Albuquerque and Las Cruces. The most important advantage that I have seen is the ‘wider operating capacity’ of Optimizers and reliability of the optimizer/micro-inverter factors. As all Wrenches on this list know, even if there is warranty labor compensation, a warranty call has its opportunity costs, as well. I have outlined below my likes and dislikes of SolarEdge v. Enphase and most of them appear in the video on the link you provided, as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>SOLAREDGE <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Likes – <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Power Production - Better Power production in early mornings and late afternoons, give about 2.5-4% better AC production (at the REC meter!) than Enphase due to wider operating capacity of SolarEdge Optimizer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Free monitoring, can upload photos of customer site on monitoring portal, less AC wiring for gateways/dataloggers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>DC powerline coms for monitoring use dedicated line from optimizers to inverter, therefore, no potential for ‘noise’ to disrupt the communication<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>No extra ‘trunk cables’ to buy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Lower cost/watt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Safe when in Open Circuit Voltage, where each Optimizer produces 1 volt until it is in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Can use with SunPower 96-cell modules<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Can now use star washers from optimizer to rail connection to eliminate need for #6 Bare Cu in exposed conditions<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>$125/per warranty call, to cover travel and labor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>25yr Optimizer warranty<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>System cost decrease for increased system size<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Arc-Fault compliant<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Dislikes –<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> SolarEdge stresses that a 25yr warranty can be ‘extended’, but is not standard – The 12yr warranty is a challenge talking point when customer is more concerned with this, than the viability of the company who is installing them<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Failure rates of new products released ‘too early’ and are quite high – we experienced close to 40% failure rate of Gen1 inverter due to faulty I/O switch and motherboards which caused the inverter to ‘stay asleep’ when it appeared that there was harmonic ‘noise’ inside the inverter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Additional inverter equipment required to ‘interconnect’ and find a place for in a garage that has a lot of clutter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> NEC Req’d Label calculations are a bit fuzzy, for the Imp and Isc conditions, may have initial questions from the AHJ. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> 7000w inverter output is only rated to produce 6000w at 240 Vac, although allowable DC inputs are higher for the 7000 (8250<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> 400w Optimizer is still a ‘new product’ and is having higher failure rates than 250w and 300w optimizers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Powerline adapter not included and will be an extra purchase<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>ENPHASE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Likes <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Arc-fault compliant<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Blog is great and answers a lot of technical questions without requiring to call tech support, Array of the week installs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> MAGE solar is offering a 30yr warranty on the module/Enphase AC module product…interesting <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Safe when not connected (UL 1741 req’d)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Dislikes <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Energy Clipping on modules above 250w range in early years of production<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>EMU is extra and is not provided with Enphase purchase <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Lots of electrolytic capacitor electronics on the roof, in the heat, for a number of years<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>High Failure rates of m190 product<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Max power limited to 215w micro-inverter at present, compared to SolarEdge’s 400w Optimizer for a single module <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Inverter AC output sizing is dependent on the micro-inverter size, whereas SolarEdge has one single inverter, this will come more in to play as Enphase increases micro-inverter sizing and will need to size Module to micro-inverter appropriately in larger systems <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Greater Voltage drop in longer homeruns, requires wire size increase<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Online reporting is <i>dicey</i>, at times on some installations depending upon local harmonic distortions<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Online monitoring only gives production ‘at the micro-inverter’ level. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Note: This last comment is inherent in the product, so as a rule, always refer to Utility Revenue Meter at interconnection instead of online production values to be objective<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Questions to Wrenches or Enphase/SolarEdge reps on this list:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>SolarEdge (John B. and Marv D.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>NEC req’d labels for inverter – Can we assume 350 Vmp and 500 Voc to calculate Imp and Max Isc values?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Enphase (Nick S.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Arc-fault failures were ‘repairable’ remotely via the online monitoring, but only 3 times. Any update on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>When is Enphase coming out with a new higher wattage micro-inverter?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>What is Enphase’s compensation for warranty calls, travel and labor these days?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Which is better, one-on-one, in similar shaded situations<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Are there any reports of either products reducing effects caused by a higher Voltage Induced Degradation (I don’t know if this term exists [as opposed to PID]) for higher 600 or 1000v systems of modules operating at higher voltages per string<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Congratulations to both Enphase and SolarEdge on their product development. These products give us hope for higher performance and I expect to see an extended life of solar panels, due to these module level production units and will help hold module manufacturers accountable. Congratulations to SolarEdge on their ‘Gangnam Style’ video, as well!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Greg Seelhorst</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Las Cruces, NM</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>SwingJunkie<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge v. micro inverters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Marco,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We installed our first Enphase system in December 2009, and our last in December 2011, when their high failure rate became a problem. (Currently 10%+ for us). We were only installing the Enphase units on sites with shading issues, as a means to mitigate conditions. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> After moving away from Enphase, we selected SolarEdge as the solution of choice for those sites. The installation labor is comparable to the Enphase solution, separate device under each module. One clear advantage is that there are no custom trunk cables required, just the standard USE-2 cable and connectors. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Our field experience has been better than expected production, and 1.4% failure rate. In December we installed a SolarEdge system just down the street from a site where we had previously installed an SMA string inverter on an unshaded site. The SolarEdge system has some shading. Both arrays have roughly the same orientation and pitch. To date the SolarEdge system with shading continues to out produce the unshaded SMA system by 5-8% kWh/kWp. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree with your intuition on fewer components making a better solution and "IF" there is a reliable solution that accomplishes this that would be preferred. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I just priced out the Mage AC module (SolarBridge technology) side by side with the Mage - SolarEdge combination and the later is less expensive equipment wise but I think that advantage would be erased by labor savings on the install. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> All that said I'm still a fan of the old fashioned string inverter solution unless the site shading conditions and or array geometry require an alternate solution. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Carl Adams<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SunRock Solar<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:15 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf" <<a href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">marco@pvthawaii.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve been educating myself on the Solar Edge product v. using micro inverters. If you click on the link below, you can read the pitch that they make for using their product over micros. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Any opinions out there on how convincing their strategy is? As well as any experience in the field with the product?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Intuitively, it seems to me that if you can accomplish what you need to accomplish (DC power from the PV mod to usable AC power) with fewer parts (as in a micro inverter instead of a DC-DC converter and a separate inverter), then that approach makes more sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.solaredge.us/groups/us/technology/microinverters">http://www.solaredge.us/groups/us/technology/microinverters</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>marco</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>